Stop Wellington!

When did the French have the best chance to stop Wellington in Spain?

  • Second Battle of Porto

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • Battle of Talavera

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Battle of Bussaco

    Votes: 5 27.8%
  • Battle of Fuentes de Oñoro

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Battle of Salamanca

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Battle of Vitoria

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • Total voters
    18
Stop Wellington!

When did the French have the best chance to stop Wellington in Spain?

Second Battle of Porto
Battle of Talavera
Battle of Bussaco
Battle of Fuentes de Oñoro
Battle of Salamanca
Battle of Vitoria
Other
 
How do you mean stop? Actually defeat and drive British forces from Spain itself? If that's the case, it's going to have to be before the Lines of Torres Vedras are constructed as afterwards, Wellington basically has a fortress around Lisbon that can only be taken by overwhelming it with a wall of corpses. Salamanca and Vitoria are far too late as Napoleon's disaster in Russia and British investment in Spain basically means they see it as their best bet to keep their influence in the conflict.
 
How do you mean stop? Actually defeat and drive British forces from Spain itself? If that's the case, it's going to have to be before the Lines of Torres Vedras are constructed as afterwards, Wellington basically has a fortress around Lisbon that can only be taken by overwhelming it with a wall of corpses. Salamanca and Vitoria are far too late as Napoleon's disaster in Russia and British investment in Spain basically means they see it as their best bet to keep their influence in the conflict.

I wasn't exactly thinking about driving them form Spain. I was more looking for when the French could deal Wellington a decisive blow, that would set him back for a good period of time.
 
I wasn't exactly thinking about driving them form Spain. I was more looking for when the French could deal Wellington a decisive blow, that would set him back for a good period of time.

Oh, just about any of them really then. Considering how much manpower British forces lacked in comparison to France, any defeat would have been enough to set them back a fair bit. You'll have to change circumstances enough so that Wellington exposes his forces in such a manner though, he was willing to retreat from Salamanca at one point because he couldn't force Marmont to battle on favourable terms.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
My understanding of Wellington's way of fighting was that he was very capable strategically (i.e. he acted to keep his army in a fighting condition in as many ways as possible), operationally (he only engaged when he felt he had a good chance of winning) and tactically (his repeated victories against pretty much every French general against whom he gave battle more or less show this).
Basically, you need him to screw up badly in at least one way. (And when he came to Spain, he was already experienced in India, so he's not going to make stupid mistakes.) Probably the best way to have him defeated is to have him misapprehend the nature of an enemy force, leading him to give battle incorrectly.
Assuming that, how do we get that to happen? One possibility is that a French general observes his counter-tactic for the Column and comes up with a counter to the counter. Spinning ideas here, but what about if he has a radical departure of a tactic which involves the column basically passing loaded muskets forward for the men in the front to fire? It's kind of tricky, but if you can have two columns launched at the British line at once, one of them a conventional one, and have it be screened by this "firepower column", then the departure from normal French tactics might - might - allow for the second column to punch through Wellington's line.
That's an idea, and it might well not work. There may be other ways of substantially and unexpectedly altering the French tactics, as well.
I'd say a good time period to do that in is either in the very first battle in Spain (when he makes a category error - treating French troops like Mysorean ones) or about halfway through (when he may have fallen into a pattern). It's a tricky one, though, precisely because of how good a general he was...
 
Wellington is out there! He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And Wellington absolutely will not stop, ever, until Napoleon is defeated.
 
Wellington is out there! He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And Wellington absolutely will not stop, ever, until Napoleon is defeated.

Is Soult, Wellington's equal?

For some reason i feel that Soult should be a better commander then Wellington. He's a Marshall General of France the highest rank possible! He demonstrated his command ability well at the Battle of Ocana, I don't understand why he can't handle Wellington.

Is it his fault or other factors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Jean_de_Dieu_Soult
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Is Soult, Wellington's equal?

For some reason i feel that Soult should be a better commander then Wellington. He's a Marshall General of France the highest rank possible! He demonstrated his command ability well at the Battle of Ocana, I don't understand why he can't handle Wellington.

Is it his fault or other factors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Jean_de_Dieu_Soult

I think it's at least partly because Wellington was really good at beating the entire French general class from under Napoleon. Hell, he beat Napoleon himself at Waterloo...
Wellington had come up with what amounted to the Stone to the normal French tactic's Scissors. Reverse slope, line of battle, high rate of fire.
 
Easier POD to have him killed in India (or die of some tropical disease while out there), so that he never gets sent to the Peninsula in the first place...
 
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