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1 March 1975
Audio Transcript of Harpers Bazaar interview with former First Lady, Edith Kennedy
Grey Gardens, Georgica Pond, East Hampton, New York

EK: Oh hi. Thank heaven you're here. You look absolutely terrific, honestly. This kimono was a gift from my mother. Isn't it terrific?

We can just sit here and do it, can't we? These are my chairs from Connecticut. The man who made them died. It was awful.

Scoot, Whiskers, or I'll sit on you. I mean, nine lives, honestly, he'll outlive all of us. I'm glad the fabric hasn't faded in all the salt air.

HB: (Muffled) ... from the White House.

EK: Joe and I lived at the White House from the very first day in 1961. Until the end, of course. But this was our home.

We were never happier in our whole lives than when we were here. I mean, it was just so free.

The kids used to ride their bikes in the hallways of the White House and get in everyone's way! Can you imagine?

It was a wonderful time.

HB: I really can't imagine. What was it like when you and President Kennedy first walked through those doors in 1961?

EK: I was in such a state but I remember the carpet. It was grey, honestly. Grey. I hated that carpet.

It was built in 1800 and was nearly burned down completely only 12 years later can you imagine? I don't know if you know that. I mean, do you know that?

I just thought it was such an important building and I was just sad that it had become so run down.

HB: So when you redecorated it ...

EK: I didn't redecorate it. I made it something new. Not to criticise Eleanor but home decor just wasn't her stock in trade.

(laughter)

No. You needed about about a million yellow forms just to change a lightbulb let alone make it nice. I can understand.

I was used to colour. Everyone there said I was doing it all wrong. It wasn't ... authentic. Authentic! I hate that word.

I was trying to be authentic and not live in a museum. I don't think we need to live in the past. Of course, we need to learn from the past.

It's all very important and all that. But we're in this world. I think people today need to know that. The past wasn't so great. Look where we are.

Maybe that's ... . I don't know. I don't think we should venerate things so much. I think we need to make sure we don't look through rose-coloured glasses.

I grew up in a different time. I don't want it to still be 1941. Why should we live like that? I'm not the same person anymore.

HB: (muffled) ... fashion model.

EB: They called me Body Beautiful Beale. It's true. That was my, whaddyacallit, sobriquet. That was a very long time ago. You weren't even born yet!

HB: You've been called 'revolutionary' more than once in regards to your fashion. Where does your style inspiration come from?

EB: Oh you mean my turban? Do you like it? I think the best kind of costume for today is one that shows the wearer. Who they are inside.

It can't be ordered from L.L. Bean.

You need to have clothes that are for you. If it means that in order to be who you are you have to make a poncho from your duvet then I think that's style.

There's more to living than kelly green.

(laughter)

HB: Yes. I think you might be pulling my leg a little bit.

EK: Not at all.

HB: When you were in France with President Kennedy in 1961, at ... the ... when President de Gaulle suggested you were really more French than American ...

EK: Yes, that was at Versailles, my god. That didn't go down very well did it? I couldn't help myself. I couldn't. I know another person would have been able to be demure and defer and stand quietly and smile.

But I was mad. Joe was saying something. I don't know what. But I just had to say it. That I might have been born a Bouvier but I chose to become a Kennedy. And all that.

I've heard it played back a hundred times and I still remember how mad I was. I was American. Bouvier? Bouvier Beale. Anyway, I was a Beale really.

I didn't know they had the microphones over on me and all that. I didn't know. I thought it was incredibly arrogant. Anyway.

And the fallout. My god. Everyone over here just went wild. Thank god. I was being told what a mistake I made and everything and it just seemed to really hit a chord with people over here.

As if we weren't good enough.

HB: It has been said that on that trip you transcended from being a mere trend-setter into an icon that endures to this day.

EK: That's very kind. I hated that man. (laughs)

HB: Do you mind if we talk about Marilyn?

EK: Of course. What took you so long?

HB: When did you two become friends?

EK: Right after.

HB: After 'Happy Birthday'?

EK: Yes. Right then. In the ... out the back of the Madison Square Garden. In the wings right behind after.

She was shaking and crying and I couldn't help it.

I knew all about it at that stage, of course. She was alone. No one around her at all. That dress. She had to be sewn in, you know.

She didn't know it but it was glittering, absolutely glittering in the dark.

Thousands of stars on her and no one was even helping her. I think that was what was wrong the most. I could see that no one was helping her.

She was just shaking and the stars just glittered on her.

I think everyone was still in shock. I don't know. I didn't tell anyone I was going to do it. To break in on her singing and do the joke.

She didn't know either. I know what people say but she didn't. It was a secret.

I couldn't help it but I went over to her and she saw me and turned into the curtain away from me. And it just broke my heart. She was like a frightened thing, a deer.

I just said something like 'It's going to be ok', or something. I don't know what I said really. My heart was just breaking looking at her. I knew what was going on. And she hugged me.

I can't describe it.

From that second on we've been inseparable. I'm just mad about her. I mean, she's strong now of course but back then you couldn't know. It was all anyone could do to stop looking at how beautiful she was to look what was inside.

You see! This is why it's so important all the work she is doing with all the kids and the charities and all that. She is tireless. You can't know what you're doing to someone on the inside. It hurts you on the inside and all those wounds they add up.

It makes me so MAD sometimes when I think about it. NO man EVER took care of her! NO woman EITHER! ONLY ME! She was taken care of. Not SEXUALLY! And if YOU imply that she was using me I will SHOVE YOU UNDER THE GODAMMNED BED!

(pause)

EK: (sighs) I'm sorry.

It's still very close to me. I mean, the way she was treated at that time. It's still very close to me.

It's very difficult to keep a line between the past and the present.

(pause)

HB: (audibly shaken) uh ... In 1972 Miss Monroe was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom for her work with the retar... with all the mentally ill people patients. How much ...

EK: Yes. It was absolutely terrific. She was.

HB: How much do you think your husband's time in the White House helped Americans to come to terms with all that? All the mentally ill?

EK: Absolutely. It was Joe that started all that. All the proper care and talking about it. Just talking about it really. And all the mean, nasty Republicans saying that we were destabilising the nation.

You can't print that.

And Stu. People don't give him enough credit you know. Stu was the one who started it all really.

No Joe started ... . They were both. Stu and Joe both hated all the ways people were putting people down.

Did you know Stu would not speak at meetings that were segregated! Twenty years ago! In the 50s! And they called him sanctimonious. That's a man. He's a darling.

So he and Joe, well you couldn't stop them. You don't know what it was like. All the horrible things that were going on. Maybe you do. Awful things.

At Joe's inauguration they tried to make him say "and so help me god" at the end and he said "for the good of one and all" and they thought that was Communist talk!

Can you believe it?! We've come a long way now.

HB: Not much talked about at the time amidst all the important integration talk was the Mental Health Act in 64.

EK: Yes.

HB: They say that you were the major force behind it. That it wouldn't have been possible if you hadn't appeared on televison and spoken the way you did.

Why do you think there was such a reluctance and backlash against all that?

EK: I don't know.

HB: You had a lot of people saying you were wrong to do that.

EK: But, you see, in dealing with me... the faceless men didn't know... that they were dealing with a staunch character.

And I tell you, if there's anything worse than a staunch woman ... S-T-A-U-N-C-H. There's nothing worse, I'm telling you. (sighs)

They don't weaken... no matter what. But they didn't know that. Well, how were they to know?

I needed to talk to people about it. I was going around all day talking to people in hopsitals who were the same as me all day. Shaking their hands and talking to them.

And it just felt phony. I was visiting this one man who was very unwell and I was just asking him how he was and he said he was not so well and then he put his hand on my hand and asked me how I was.

And it just hit me. I needed to stand up and say my story. That I was like them. The same.

There's no shame and it's not wrong. I got a lot of wonderful support from everybody here. American people.

It was just time I guess. Joe and Stu did it all. I just said what I thought. I thought we'd be talking about my turbans today. (laughter)

HB: I guess. No. We can talk about that too. Actually, do you mind if we take a break and change the tape?

EK: Sure. Go ahead. I need to get Whiskers some lunch. I wonder if Mother wants some soup. Tomato or the bisque?
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