Station Wagon Wank

Driftless

Donor
I disagree.

The SUV is an evolutionary dead-end in 99.99% of cases.

There is nothing a standard SUV can do better than a MPV (minivan for those of a NA persuasion). The vast majority of SUVs are FWD and for a larger carbon and physical footprint provide less space and economy.

The best looking SUV is still an ugly bit of kit whereas a well-designed MPV can be a thing of exquisite beauty.

I speak as someone who has owned many examples of both types of car. My favourite car to drive of all time was a proper SUV (Subaru Forester) but it was a pig to look at and had a small cargo capacity and shocking fuel economy.

Until more recently*, it depends on where you live and how you use the vehicle. I live in the US Midwest where we get varying combinations of freezing rain and snow for five months of the year. An SUV, IF it has AWD/4WD with a bit more ground clearance is a very useful thing, especially where the roads aren't immaculately cleared with frequency. Also, if you need to pull a trailer, then a vechile with some more juice and an appropriate suspension is better. I've had both SUV's, Mini-vans, big vans, trucks, and sedans over time and I'll take the SUV and truck anyday.

* Until recently, it was more difficult to find an AWD sedan/van, unless it was a Subaru or an Audi. Not impossible, just more uncommon.
 

kernals12

Banned
Until more recently*, it depends on where you live and how you use the vehicle. I live in the US Midwest where we get varying combinations of freezing rain and snow for five months of the year. An SUV, IF it has AWD/4WD with a bit more ground clearance is a very useful thing, especially where the roads aren't immaculately cleared with frequency. Also, if you need to pull a trailer, then a vechile with some more juice and an appropriate suspension is better. I've had both SUV's, Mini-vans, big vans, trucks, and sedans over time and I'll take the SUV and truck anyday.

* Until recently, it was more difficult to find an AWD sedan/van, unless it was a Subaru or an Audi. Not impossible, just more uncommon.
In truth, a good pair of winter tires will provide all the snow performance you need. And all wheel drive might help with starting in snow or ice but it does nothing for handling or braking. But I guess people don't want to have to put on new wheels every winter.
 

Driftless

Donor
In truth, a good pair of winter tires will provide all the snow performance you need. And all wheel drive might help with starting in snow or ice but it does nothing for handling or braking. But I guess people don't want to have to put on new wheels every winter.

I'll agree on the braking part, but my experience has been different. Plus, you are talking $600-$800 for a decent set of snow tires and one set of the tires is always being stored - either at cost, or in the way. At getting underway anywhere, or keeping moving under slushy or drifting conditions is routine in our part of the world.
 
I'll agree on the braking part, but my experience has been different. Plus, you are talking $600-$800 for a decent set of snow tires and one set of the tires is always being stored - either at cost, or in the way. At getting underway anywhere, or keeping moving under slushy or drifting conditions is routine in our part of the world.
Agree. AWD is no comparison, far better than a RWD Wagon that would only rarely have a limited slip differential. Having controlled differential was of far more than tires, and almost every AWD has options on how that diff acts when wheelspin is detected. Back in the day, all.you could do was play with the parking brake
 
Until more recently*, it depends on where you live and how you use the vehicle. I live in the US Midwest where we get varying combinations of freezing rain and snow for five months of the year. An SUV, IF it has AWD/4WD with a bit more ground clearance is a very useful thing, especially where the roads aren't immaculately cleared with frequency. Also, if you need to pull a trailer, then a vechile with some more juice and an appropriate suspension is better. I've had both SUV's, Mini-vans, big vans, trucks, and sedans over time and I'll take the SUV and truck anyday.

* Until recently, it was more difficult to find an AWD sedan/van, unless it was a Subaru or an Audi. Not impossible, just more uncommon.

I was speaking from the viewpoint of here in the UK where the bulk of SUVs are 2WD and FWD at that. Even a large percentage of those that claim to be 4WD or AWD are kidding themselves on since they are invariably 80/20 or a 60/40 Front/Rear split.

People who need proper 4WD buy a proper 4WD not what is referred to here in the UK as a "Chelsea Tractor".
 
Minivans are hideous
Some are but others are works of art.

SUVs are the same. There are a handle of decent looking ones but the bulk are deliberately pug ugly. For example, the entire Jeep range is an affront to car design. Considering several of them are FIATs underneath it is clear that no Italians were involved in the design of the bodies!!
 

kernals12

Banned
Some are but others are works of art.

SUVs are the same. There are a handle of decent looking ones but the bulk are deliberately pug ugly. For example, the entire Jeep range is an affront to car design. Considering several of them are FIATs underneath it is clear that no Italians were involved in the design of the bodies!!
Stop dissing the Jeep range
The Wrangler is rugged
The Grand Cherokee is classy
The Renegade is cute
The Compass
The Cherokee is handsome
 

kernals12

Banned
I've always wondered why cab drivers preferred sedans. Surely they'd want lots of cargo space for taking fares to and from the airport, and a third row of seats for that big party.
 
Stop dissing the Jeep range
The Wrangler is rugged
The Grand Cherokee is classy
The Renegade is cute
The Compass
The Cherokee is handsome
:):):):)

The Wrangler is a warrior gone to seed in the worst way
The Cherokee is wants to be an X5 when it grows up
The Grand Cherokee is an Homer Simpson in car form
The Renegade is a Fiat 500X with a tramp stamp
The Compass is a Fiat 500L on platform shoes
 
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It's only one of the reasons. People rediscovered the benefits of tall cars after decades of swallowing the mantra of longer, lower, wider.

And there's no way you can justify classifying station wagons as trucks. Taking a sedan and extending its roof back does not make a truck.

It's law. It doesn't need some hyper-rational justification, it just needs someone inserting a rule that says station wagons are classified as trucks.
 
I've always wondered why cab drivers preferred sedans. Surely they'd want lots of cargo space for taking fares to and from the airport, and a third row of seats for that big party.

Actually, the best cabs I've ever seen and used are the classic black London Taxi cabs. They're huge and roomy inside and can comfortably accommodate people and baggage in the cabin for airport runs, and there are extra, fold-down seats so that people can face each other. They're easy to enter and exit. Design-wise, they are an enduring icon. I should know because I lived in London as an American expat from 2004-2007 and used them more than a few times, both in-town and from LHR to central London in a pinch. Nobody does taxicabs like the London Taxi!
 
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