Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy
Banned
It would be called Santo Domingo, which is how the Dominican Republic was informally known as back in the day. I don't expect Haiti to ever be annexed; the locals wouldn't want and a conquest is just not worth it.
State of the Dominican Republic?
- Thread starter vultan
- Start date
Most of the places the US annexed, the locals "didn't want it". Haiti would be no diferent. And if it was placed under permament occupation, and became a part of the state of Dominica or whatever, then it would have a real chance of acheivbeing stability and prosperity.
So let's look at possible names for this state so far suggested:
- Dominica
- Santo Domingo
- Hispaniola
- Duarte
- Haiti
- Overture
Hmm, Dominica probably is the most likely, but personally, I like Overture the best (maybe if it becomes a state, it's nickname will be "the Overture State"). Thanks for all the support, I'm currently working on the first part of my tl, I'll try to post tomorrow.
PS: If the US were to also annex Haiti later on in this tl, would it be it own territory or would it be combined with Dominica (probably then renamed to Hispaniola)?
PSS: Thanks to the people who worked on the "Mexico joins the Central Powers" thread, it gave me alot of ideas (i know, that was a huge giveaway...
)
PS: If the US were to also annex Haiti later on in this tl, would it be it own territory or would it be combined with Dominica (probably then renamed to Hispaniola)?
PSS: Thanks to the people who worked on the "Mexico joins the Central Powers" thread, it gave me alot of ideas (i know, that was a huge giveaway...
)Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy
Banned
You're saying this in a thread about the US annexing the Dominican Republic peacefully - a place it did not annex by force in OTL and which Congress itself did not want. History is not a game of Risk. There's simply no actual need to have the western 1/3 of the island once you have the eastern 2/3. The Dominicans themselves might resist it, since having the entire island under American rule would allow the hated Haitians to move around it freely.
The US actually did occupy Haiti for many years in the early 20th century, never bothering with annexation.
I admit that Overture is a completely ahistorical invention of mine, but whatever you do, please don't use "Dominica." There's already an island nation named that already, dammit having two Dominicas in the Caribbean is far more grating and annoying than the two Georgias or Galicias or multiple Alexandrias.
1869: President Baez of the Dominican Republic begs the US to annex his country rife with internal problems. President Grant supports it because he thinks it is a place freedmen and other blacks can live without discrimination. A treaty of annexation is drawn up. When it goes to the Senate floor, it passes by one vote.
President Baez becomes territorial governor until elections can be held again. The territory becomes known as the Territory of Domingo.
1870’s: American farmers move to Domingo to start sugarcane plantations. They become enormously successful. The US government makes a tidy sum from tariffs and taxes and takes note.
1880’s: Jim Crow laws start coming into full effect in the American South. Black immigration to Domingo, which until then had been moderate, spikes. So many move, in fact, that Domingo’s territorial government suggests to the US government that they annex Haiti to accommodate them all, but it refuses. For now.
1890’s: Jim Crow laws start to relax due to the fact that there were far fewer blacks. America buys Guyana from Great Britain in an attempt to mimic the success of the sugar plantations there. Tensions between the US and Spain deteriorate due to a variety of reasons, most notably the Cuban struggle for independence.
1898: Spanish-American War, which ends in a huge victory for America. The terms of the Treaty of Paris include the US annexing the Philippines, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and Rio de Oro. This comes with criticism from various parties. Some US politicians complain that America is acting too imperialistic. Certain Cubans complain that they did not fight for independence from one nation just to come under the yoke of another.
The Senate tries to appease them by promising that they will become a state, effective January 1st, 1900. Domingo objects. They argue that they have a large population of American nationals, and that the native population has more or less assimilated, so they deserve statehood. The US government agrees, and the Territory of Domingo will become a state at the same time.
1900: Cuba and Domingo are admitted as states in the Union.
1903: The US annexes Panama, one of the reasons being to build a huge canal.
1911: Civil war erupts in Haiti. The governor of Domingo argues to the Senate that the violence could be a threat to American citizens across the border, so the Senate votes to annex and pacify Haiti.
1912: The Territory of Haiti is incorporated with the State of Domingo, creating the State of Overture, named after the Anglicized name of the Haitian rebel leader, Toussaint Louverture. Lumping together Hawaii, Overture, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Guyana, sugarcane exports are one of the most important for America. Theodore Roosevelt of the Progressive Party wins an extremely narrow election for President by only one vote. Historians believe he would not have won the election if it wasn’t for an ingenious campaign devised and funded by wealthy plantation owners in Overture and Cuba.
However, all these misgivings shall give way to a far bigger problem stirring up in the Balkans…
COMING SOON: THE WAR TO END ALL WARS
(questions? comments? criticisms? ideas?)
If someone could make a map, that would be great. I’m terrible at making maps. If you do, America’s overseas empire currently consists of the Philippines, Hawaii, Guam, Cuba, Overture (OTL Haiti and Dominican Republic), Puerto Rico, Guyana, and Rio de Oro (Western Sahara).
President Baez becomes territorial governor until elections can be held again. The territory becomes known as the Territory of Domingo.
1870’s: American farmers move to Domingo to start sugarcane plantations. They become enormously successful. The US government makes a tidy sum from tariffs and taxes and takes note.
1880’s: Jim Crow laws start coming into full effect in the American South. Black immigration to Domingo, which until then had been moderate, spikes. So many move, in fact, that Domingo’s territorial government suggests to the US government that they annex Haiti to accommodate them all, but it refuses. For now.
1890’s: Jim Crow laws start to relax due to the fact that there were far fewer blacks. America buys Guyana from Great Britain in an attempt to mimic the success of the sugar plantations there. Tensions between the US and Spain deteriorate due to a variety of reasons, most notably the Cuban struggle for independence.
1898: Spanish-American War, which ends in a huge victory for America. The terms of the Treaty of Paris include the US annexing the Philippines, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and Rio de Oro. This comes with criticism from various parties. Some US politicians complain that America is acting too imperialistic. Certain Cubans complain that they did not fight for independence from one nation just to come under the yoke of another.
The Senate tries to appease them by promising that they will become a state, effective January 1st, 1900. Domingo objects. They argue that they have a large population of American nationals, and that the native population has more or less assimilated, so they deserve statehood. The US government agrees, and the Territory of Domingo will become a state at the same time.
1900: Cuba and Domingo are admitted as states in the Union.
1903: The US annexes Panama, one of the reasons being to build a huge canal.
1911: Civil war erupts in Haiti. The governor of Domingo argues to the Senate that the violence could be a threat to American citizens across the border, so the Senate votes to annex and pacify Haiti.
1912: The Territory of Haiti is incorporated with the State of Domingo, creating the State of Overture, named after the Anglicized name of the Haitian rebel leader, Toussaint Louverture. Lumping together Hawaii, Overture, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Guyana, sugarcane exports are one of the most important for America. Theodore Roosevelt of the Progressive Party wins an extremely narrow election for President by only one vote. Historians believe he would not have won the election if it wasn’t for an ingenious campaign devised and funded by wealthy plantation owners in Overture and Cuba.
However, all these misgivings shall give way to a far bigger problem stirring up in the Balkans…
COMING SOON: THE WAR TO END ALL WARS
(questions? comments? criticisms? ideas?)
If someone could make a map, that would be great. I’m terrible at making maps. If you do, America’s overseas empire currently consists of the Philippines, Hawaii, Guam, Cuba, Overture (OTL Haiti and Dominican Republic), Puerto Rico, Guyana, and Rio de Oro (Western Sahara).
I think the British Guyana and Rio de Oro bit are a little out there.
The British never sold us anything. We negotiated borders with them but thats it. And America is not going to take control of Rio de Oro because they would be pissing off the French, British, and the Germans.
The British never sold us anything. We negotiated borders with them but thats it. And America is not going to take control of Rio de Oro because they would be pissing off the French, British, and the Germans.
Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy
Banned
No way will the Dominican upper class, made up of white and mulatto Hispanophones, accept black immigrants or having their state named after a Haitian revolutionary.
General Mung Beans
Banned
I don't think Santo Domingo and Haiti would be merged into one state or be named Overture.
Ok, I'll address some of the criticisms.
First is the one about accepting black immigrants. Well, the US helped pay off Domingo's debt after it was annexed and pacified it's people (beforehand there was a coup every other week), so they like the Americans and will probably lern to live with the blacks if only for that, plus, some of them own farms and blacks are the ones who end up working on them.
US annexing Rio de Oro and Guyana. When rewriting I made a mistake: I meant that they purchased DUTCH Guyana, and for a hefty sum (something in the neighborhood of 30 billion in today's terms; after all the sugarcane business is becoming very lucrative for America). Rio de Oro is harder to justify, I admit. I was driving myself insane wondering if it was too much for them to get that, and I finally decided to go with it because it emphasizes America's increasing imperialism, and, as for the French and Germans not liking it, well, they liked us better than the Spanish.
As for Overture, you're right, pretend it was always Domingo.
First is the one about accepting black immigrants. Well, the US helped pay off Domingo's debt after it was annexed and pacified it's people (beforehand there was a coup every other week), so they like the Americans and will probably lern to live with the blacks if only for that, plus, some of them own farms and blacks are the ones who end up working on them.
US annexing Rio de Oro and Guyana. When rewriting I made a mistake: I meant that they purchased DUTCH Guyana, and for a hefty sum (something in the neighborhood of 30 billion in today's terms; after all the sugarcane business is becoming very lucrative for America). Rio de Oro is harder to justify, I admit. I was driving myself insane wondering if it was too much for them to get that, and I finally decided to go with it because it emphasizes America's increasing imperialism, and, as for the French and Germans not liking it, well, they liked us better than the Spanish.
As for Overture, you're right, pretend it was always Domingo.
Neither do I: the Dominicans and Haitians hate each other. Overture would easily be the most dysfunctional state in the Union for that reason alone. And even in the unlikely event that such a state existed, it would be called Hispaniola.
I dont think you realize the implications of an American Rio de Oro. It would be an overly aggressive move into an area already hotly contested between 3-4 European powers.
Never mind the fact that Rio de Oro is nearly worthless beside resupply value. But why would America need a resupply base here?
Any benefit of having Rio de Oro is going to be outweighed by the fact that we are going to have to protect this worthless sand trap at the end of our supply chain, on the other side of the ocean, from the greed of Europe.
It just isn't worth it.
OK, justin's right: rio de oro is no longer a territory. Otherwise, any more criticisms, complaints, or misgivings? I seriously want your feedback, my first TL needs to be pimpin'!
(would there be anything wrong with Rio de Oro being granted independence and having a pro-US government installed?)
(would there be anything wrong with Rio de Oro being granted independence and having a pro-US government installed?)
no problem for me. However, I do not understand too well that the US get only Rio de Oro, and not Ecuatorial Guinea or even the Canary Islands.
Where did you get that idea?
That's like calling it the State of Jack.
Well, finally there is a real Republic of the Desert Square Inhabited by Four Sheep Herders to justify Hollywood comedies.
By the way, Rio de Oro is only the southern half of the Spanish Sahara, which makes your scenario even more absurd.
Ok, thanks for all those who have given their opinions (I'm actually not being sarcastic, not even to Tocomocho). I've postponed developement on my WW1 segment of the TL to go back and revise my first part. In this one, Domingo remains a state separate from the territory of Haiti, the US buys Dutch Guiana (not a stretch, considering we bought the Virgin Islands from them), and we the only territory we get in ttl that is different from otl is Cuba ,which is the most plausible, I think. Otherwise, things stay mostly the same. ANY objections before I start?
@vultan - US bought the Virgin Islands from Denmark. And its strange the US did not take over the Canary Islands from Spain. Maybe since the Canary Islands were closer to Spain could explain it. Better to defend. Those island would have made a great US base.
US could have had Yucatan. The Spanish Creoles in Yucatan were being beseiged by the native Mayans. They asked the US that they would allow the US to annex them if they save them from the Mayans. Yucatan had separated from Mexico. They were never really part of Mexico. US refused and other nations they had contacted refused so they asked Mexico.
This on the Republic of Yucatan which once existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Yucat%C3%A1n
Another name for the Dominican Republic (DR). historically was "Quisqueya". .Its still used in has a substitute when saying the DR.
From Wiki:
Map here: http://www.luventicus.org/mapas/republicadominicana/samana.gif
One problem with the annexation story. President Baez was the one who wanted the US to annex the DR. in 1868. US Congress turned it down on 1870 but the US gpv't.sent a commission to DR. in 1871 to check around. In the end DR. leased Samana Peninsula to US private businessmen. First payments on the lease were paid on 1872. Later Baez was overthrown so the businessmen did not know who to send the 1873 payments which was the perfect excuse for the lease to be cancelled by the next leader that came to power in DR..
Before Baez there was President Santana. Seems since DR. was in economic problems he invited Spain to come back, after they had been independent for some years from there neighbors to the west.. Spain sent troops1861. By 1863 the Spanish were driven out by a popular and nationalist movement that was made up of everyone in Dominican society. From rural worker to city dweller to rich and all in between. They say this resistance against the Spanish saw the Dominicans united and armed like never before in defense of there nation. They say in no other point in there history past or future have they been so many armed Dominicans united in defense of there homeland.
What this means is that the US annexation of the Dominican Republic might not have gone anywhere. President Baez tried to do like President Santana before. If he had succeeded the people would have probably revolted. Side note - Both Santana and Baez hated each other. Both got overthrown.
Photo of the Father of the dominican Republic JUAN PABLO DUARTE . He is seated.
http://www.27defebrero.org/images/duartefinal.jpg
People of Cuba fought hard for there independence so would think they would not want annexation.
US could have had Yucatan. The Spanish Creoles in Yucatan were being beseiged by the native Mayans. They asked the US that they would allow the US to annex them if they save them from the Mayans. Yucatan had separated from Mexico. They were never really part of Mexico. US refused and other nations they had contacted refused so they asked Mexico.
This on the Republic of Yucatan which once existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Yucat%C3%A1n
Another name for the Dominican Republic (DR). historically was "Quisqueya". .Its still used in has a substitute when saying the DR.
From Wiki:
US in 1868 was still reconstructing the South. Do not think they would really want to annex anyone unless it was strategic. I do know that the US wanted Samana Peninsula which is part of the Dominican Republic (DR). Dominican leaders would have sold it to anyone who wanted it. It had coal reserves and a good harbor.
Map here: http://www.luventicus.org/mapas/republicadominicana/samana.gif
One problem with the annexation story. President Baez was the one who wanted the US to annex the DR. in 1868. US Congress turned it down on 1870 but the US gpv't.sent a commission to DR. in 1871 to check around. In the end DR. leased Samana Peninsula to US private businessmen. First payments on the lease were paid on 1872. Later Baez was overthrown so the businessmen did not know who to send the 1873 payments which was the perfect excuse for the lease to be cancelled by the next leader that came to power in DR..
Before Baez there was President Santana. Seems since DR. was in economic problems he invited Spain to come back, after they had been independent for some years from there neighbors to the west.. Spain sent troops1861. By 1863 the Spanish were driven out by a popular and nationalist movement that was made up of everyone in Dominican society. From rural worker to city dweller to rich and all in between. They say this resistance against the Spanish saw the Dominicans united and armed like never before in defense of there nation. They say in no other point in there history past or future have they been so many armed Dominicans united in defense of there homeland.
What this means is that the US annexation of the Dominican Republic might not have gone anywhere. President Baez tried to do like President Santana before. If he had succeeded the people would have probably revolted. Side note - Both Santana and Baez hated each other. Both got overthrown.
Photo of the Father of the dominican Republic JUAN PABLO DUARTE . He is seated.
http://www.27defebrero.org/images/duartefinal.jpg
People of Cuba fought hard for there independence so would think they would not want annexation.
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OK, anyone else wanna take a crack at a "Dominican Republic gets annexed TL"? I obviously don't know anywhere enough about it to even begin to speculate, and I'm too busy studying for some huge tests I've got when I get back to school, so taking hours to research this kind of stuff just isn't practical for me.