State of Israel created in the 19th Century.

Suppose that the State of Israel had been created in the 19th Century. Preferably around the time of the anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe as that was a large push factor for Jewish emigration. What would be the ramifications of this? Would the world Jewish population be larger as not as many would’ve been in Europe for events such as the Holocaust and additional pogroms?
 
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I have to agree with a smaller/butterflied-away Shoah. How are you going to get around the Ottomans though? That would be an interesting feat and I'm open to hearing some ideas. Some massive battlefield defeat that Imperial Russia then exploits so as to have an "escape valve" to send its hated Jews off to?
 
Suppose that the State of Israel had been created in the 19th Century. Preferably around the time of the anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe as that was a large push factor for Jewish emigration. What would be the ramifications of this? Would the world Jewish population be larger as not as many would’ve been in Europe for events such as the Holocaust and additional pogroms?

The state is possibly in Uganda, Argentina or Suriname (not sure about the latter though). Assuming it's the first two, emigration isn't as large as to OTL Israel post 1919. But it will be large enough. No desire for Palestine anymore although Jewish migration to Palestine won't end anytime soon (possibly to have a Jewish Palestine as well...). Rapid decline of Russian Jews for the New Israel.
 
The problem with the idea is a Israel tucked away in some remote part of the world* is if the Jews of the world dont want to go there, then there's no Israel. Even if there lost of Pogroms going to that encourage Jewish movement in general they likely go somewhere else (like they pretty much did)


*and one assumes that's either a part of the world that likes the idea, or can't contest it. (the latter might cause problems later of course)
 
1)What would be the ramifications of this? 2) Would the world Jewish population be larger as not as many would’ve been in Europe for events such as the Holocaust and additional pogroms?

1) There would be still a conflict betweem the Jews and whoever was there before.

2) Probably, yes. This would be the only benefit.
 
Salonika/Thessaloniki was a mostly/plurality Jewish city for much of the 19th century.

Bulgaria, retains its boundaries expanded boundaries in the Treaty of San Stefano. The Salonika and Chalkidiki area, now an isolated Peninsula, is decided to be a good location for a Jewish State. The Ottomans allow open immigration the Peninsula and city for Jews, assuming they pledged loyalty to the Sultan.
 
Salonika/Thessaloniki was a mostly/plurality Jewish city for much of the 19th century.

Bulgaria, retains its boundaries expanded boundaries in the Treaty of San Stefano. The Salonika and Chalkidiki area, now an isolated Peninsula, is decided to be a good location for a Jewish State. The Ottomans allow open immigration the Peninsula and city for Jews, assuming they pledged loyalty to the Sultan.

No Great Power nor the Balkan States (Serbia, Greece, Romania) will accept a Greater Bulgaria as in San Stefano hencs why the Great Powers got together in Berlin to renegotiate.

The region is optional but with a Greater Bulgaria, Greece will try to go for that state to get whatever that is left. Who will protect this Jewish State? I can't think of anyone.
 
Suppose that the State of Israel had been created in the 19th Century. Preferably around the time of the anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe as that was a large push factor for Jewish emigration. What would be the ramifications of this? Would the world Jewish population be larger as not as many would’ve been in Europe for events such as the Holocaust and additional pogroms?
It might be even a monarchy.
 
An interesting result is likely to be that Hebrew will not be revived as a spoken language in the way that it has been OTL - the state wil have been established maybe even before Elieza ben-Yehuda goes to Palestine. Hebrew will remain mostly as a religious/literary language, and this 'State of Israel' will speak either Yiddish (if it has an Ashkenazi majority) or, if the Alliance Israelite Universelle has anything to do with it, French.
 
There was an amazing timeline covering just this idea a while ago, though it does not exactly create an independent Israel per se, where Sultan Abdul Hamid II decides to make Palestine a safe haven for the Jewish people in circa 1896. If anyone could help provide me with the link or the name of the TL, that would be most helpful.
 
An interesting result is likely to be that Hebrew will not be revived as a spoken language in the way that it has been OTL - the state wil have been established maybe even before Elieza ben-Yehuda goes to Palestine. Hebrew will remain mostly as a religious/literary language, and this 'State of Israel' will speak either Yiddish (if it has an Ashkenazi majority) or, if the Alliance Israelite Universelle has anything to do with it, French.

Salonika/Thessaloniki was a mostly/plurality Jewish city for much of the 19th century.

Bulgaria, retains its boundaries expanded boundaries in the Treaty of San Stefano. The Salonika and Chalkidiki area, now an isolated Peninsula, is decided to be a good location for a Jewish State. The Ottomans allow open immigration the Peninsula and city for Jews, assuming they pledged loyalty to the Sultan.

Would the official language be Judeo-Spanish?
 
I can see European powers supporting Israel just to piss off the Ottomans.
I can also see the Israelis leasing a base to the Royal Navy so they can guard the Suez canal.
 
I can see European powers supporting Israel just to piss off the Ottomans.
I can also see the Israelis leasing a base to the Royal Navy so they can guard the Suez canal.

- One European Power supporting an Israel has larger consequences. It brings the Arab leaders such as the Sharif closer to the Young Turks officials post-1908. The UK, the most likeliest of them to support such state has no chance to get there if they are openly supporting it. Even as the region is still Arabic majority and the Arabs will turn hostild to their Jewish neighbours. Other than there is no reason to piss off the Ottomans since it is not an official ally of Germany or Russia.

- The UK has Cyprus as base, Israel offers nothing extra. Egypt is under British influence since the 1880s. Making Israel even less desirable when the Suez is already theirs.
 
Would the official language be Judeo-Spanish?

If the Jewish state is established in the Balkans (which in my view is unlikely anyway) then it's possible. Anywhere else, no. In the 19th and early 20th centuries the Ahkenazim were the driving force in the 'return to the Holy Land' movement. Pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe made sure of it. Jews in the Ottoman Empire, where Ladino was spoken, were AFAIK not too badly treated compared with Eastern Europe.
 
Perhaps the Ottomans gain something by patronizing the idea of a Jewish state? (Though not necessarily in Palestine where they'd probably spark a civil war, which they most definitely wouldn't want).
 
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