Starting the USA Better prepared for WWII.

Driftless

Donor
The concept I always think about in WW2 preparation in this time frame is "penny foolish, pound wise"...

some ideas:

Army Basic Training center gets set up and all new enlistees get run through (including National Guardsmen)...you can sort out the bugs in the process and increase readiness with better inital trained personnel at the same time

More Treasury class cutters, some of the best money ever spent by the United States Government as far as value is concerned...

Earlier development of the Jeep

Funds to Sikorsky to speed up development of rotary wing aircraft

Overhauling/converting mothballed 4 pipers into subchasers, minesweepers, destroyer transports

Don't waste money on the 37mm AT gun, look at the French or Czech 47mm...

More oilers...

More SEATRAIN vessels (early version RORO)
I like your list.

I'd add the concept that Fester uses as the core for his superb "Keynes Cruisers" (volumes 1&2). My overly simplified description of the premise is the earlier build-up of the US Navy, in part as an economic stimulus/jobs program in the mid '30's. Not only were more ships were available Dec 8, 1941, but the production queue was ample and the background mechanisms were in place and operating.

A couple of tools to add for the Army and Marines:
  • A 1930's general-purpose predecessor to the M29 Weasel, in part it could serve as an American alternative to the Bren/Universal Carrier. (Thanks to Marathag for pointing out the great utility of the M29 on another thread)
  • A cheap, sturdy SMG as an alternative to the Thompson
 
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Yes, the US gear (apart the torpedo scandal and Hispano cannon problem) ranged between good and excellent, both in capability and reliability. Indeed, most of the problems were with the higher-ups, that either failed to act according to facts, or were too busy with in-fighting (not at the degree of what heppened in Germany, let alone in Japan), or were not shy to ignore the facts and experiences that will be pointing out their mistakes.

That gear was good still does not mean that men using it could not be using a improved stuff. Some changes in aircraft production:
- Fund the 2-stage supercharged V-1710.
- Drop tanks are mandatory.
- P-40 remains mostly as-is, just keep at 4 .50s max. Install the 2-stage S/Ced V-1710 when available. Curtiss to make just this fighter.
- Johnson at Lockheed was after a fighter that is powered either with one turboed 1500 HP engine, or two turboed 1000 HP engines (= OTL P-38). This time around, use a 1500 HP R-2600 as base, switch to R-2800 when available. Have Bell make the same fighter under licence - no P-39, no P-63.
- Have Republic design a fighter around 2-stage supercharged R-2800 engine - it should be smaller, lighter, as well as cheaper and faster to make than a P-47; P&W is in the neighborhood anyway.
- Piggy-back on Mustang. Make sure that engines better than 1-stage supercharged V-1710 is installed once available - Merlin, 2-stage S/Ced V-1710. A second source for Mustang in 1942.
- Manage to find the way to make Mosquito under licence, while trying to have A-20 improve in speed.
- What about B-26?
 
Some random thoughts:
- USAAC might do well is they forget torpedoes for their bombers, ditto for the A-24 (SBD) and A-25 (SB2C)
- Start figuring out how to use fighters to bomb stuff, ie. fighter-bombers and dive bombing role (yes, it worked even without dive brakes).
- Drop tanks can make long-range fighters viable, but engine power is also needed.
- See whether the A-20 with turboed V-1710 can be a fast & long-ranged bomber, and/or base for a night fighter.
- Napalm.
- Have Martin make a big 4-engined bomber instead of B-26?

Army:
- Since it will take some time to engineer the big turret for the M3, perhaps have the 37mm turret deleted? Should make it lower & smaller target, reduce the crew needed, allow for bigger ammo stowage, while the reduced weight can be used up for up-armoring it?
- Don't drag the feet with 76mm for M4.
- Stick the muzzle brake on the 105mm howitzer for T19 self-propelled piece so the vehicle does not suffer.
- Have the M1 carbine fire in automatic from day one, with 30 rd magazine that is fixed by a proper lock.
- See whether the M1919 MG can be lighter and more infantry-friendly.
- A driveshaft lowered via intermediate gear for the M4 would've been nice.
 
- Start figuring out how to use fighters to bomb stuff, ie. fighter-bombers and dive bombing role (yes, it worked even without dive brakes).
The USAAC wanted all attack aircraft to be twin engined, away from the earlier two seat, single engine aircraft of the early '30s, like the Shrike, while all single engine were to be more interceptors in function
 
The USAAC wanted all attack aircraft to be twin engined, away from the earlier two seat, single engine aircraft of the early '30s, like the Shrike, while all single engine were to be more interceptors in function

The A-24, A-25, A-35 and A-31 were all 1-engined aircraft.
 

Driftless

Donor
Start figuring out how to use fighters to bomb stuff, ie. fighter-bombers and dive bombing role (yes, it worked even without dive brakes).

Could the P-35 or P-36 have served as proof-of-concept? Both might be a bit underpowered (and under-gunned) for the role, but it's a place to start.

Also, both were radial engined, so better from the survivability standpoint - or at least that would be the perception
 
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Listen to the experienced advice from their British and Canadian Allies so as to be better prepared for the Operation Drumbeat U-boat offensive off the Atlantic seaboard and in the Caribbean Sea. Order blackouts in all coastal cities and towns so freighters are not backlit. Start convoying immediately. And copy the methods and tactics the RN and RCN had learned through two years of experience in the Battle of the Atlantic. This could reduce the heavy losses of ships, material and crews that were suffered by the American and friendly merchant fleets through 1942 into 1943.
 
Could the P-35 or P-36 have served as proof-of-concept? Both might be a bit underpowered (and under-gunned) for the role, but it's a place to start.

P-36 was listed by manufacturer as being capable to be armed with up to six 50lb bombs. I guess that's a start.
IIRC the US aviators were bombing ground targets during 'banana wars' when flying fighter aircraft.
 
The problem was with the culture of the US higher command levels. Pre war it was riven with political infighting and they simply ignored the facts in front of them. As I've pointed out the RAF went over to the US and demonstrated their ground controlled intercept system. Despite having seen how well it worked they turned up their noses at it. The problems with the US command structure were well known within the US military, it was just infighting meant they did nothing about it until forced by the harsh realities of war. This is the problem which needs to be addressed.
As a radar Chain Home was amazingly primitive already in 1941 or even 1939. As you note, what made CH an effective force multiplier in the interception mission was integration with the command structure. The spotters (women, during the war, I believe) had a hotline phone to Fighter Command; FC had practiced integration and had confidence in it, and IIRC a voice over radio (these, during wartime mobilization anyway, I am more certain were generally women) would issue instructions to the interceptors to vector them at the targets. Elementary stuff, but as you note nobody but the British were doing this. It was more than just installing radar kit, it was getting the command structure to trust the newfangled equipment against "not invented here" prejudice. Contrast the situation in Hawaii in the Pearl Harbor attack; the Army radar team was experimental. The radar itself was vastly superior to CH, but the team was not even authorized to be working on a Sunday. They spotted a mysterious, unlogged formation and called HQ, and the officer in charge there supposed it was probably some incoming B-17s being deployed and angrily reprimanded the radar chief for daring to waste taxpayer money and to stand down and report to barracks immediately. This story is from memory but I am pretty sure the gist of it is correct.

As a side note LTA wank, I've wondered if the Navy had followed through on their plans for big rigid airships of the Akron-Macon type (presumably with some extensions of lift capacity and other nifty modifications by 1941) and had a hangar as well as mast in Hawaii, whether some rigid operating with a new radar set aboard (airborne radar is a whole different thing, but a 250 meter long or longer airship can lift a lot of equipment, and with a lot more elbow room for bulky and power and cooling hungry Mark 1 experimental kit, also in much more stable, shock free conditions allowing for fragility--in fact OTL quite a lot of advanced gear such as radar, navigation systems, magnetic anomaly detectors, later infrared scanners, were first tested out on blimps before models that fit into airplanes and helicopters could be devised) operates offshore, and the Navy airship being better integrated into Naval command, the warning is taken more seriously and checked on. In principle we might not need an actual rigid, but I think if the forces that sank the USN rigid scheme OTL prevail (and I admit the Navy had reasons to give up on it in the mid-30s) there wouldn't be a lot more support for blimps than OTL either, whereas the really big blimps that might have served for this were not developed (the M ships aka "Mike") until late in the war.

Speaking of blimps and coastal patrol in general, that was yet another Not Invented Here thing the Navy infamously spurned OTL. The Army had had the mission of coastal defense coming out of the '20s until the mid-30's; they had a legacy investment in coastal artillery and the wacky notion that B-17s could sink ships bombing from high altitude. In fact the transition from the rather primitive WWI legacy blimp design with draggy open external rigging over the hull to suspend a gondola below happened largely to develop the early to mid '30s Army patrol blimps--Karl Arnstein and some other guy, another of the Germans (well, Arnstein was actually a Czech of ethnically Jewish background though his family had converted to Catholicism and Germanized in Austria-Hungary) sent over from Zeppelin company to form Goodyear-Zeppelin's design team core, had his name on the patent for internal curtain suspension such as modern blimps use, and the wartime L, K and M models for the Navy used these, as did the transitional Army TC ships the Navy inherited when the Army was stripped of coastal defense mission, around the same time the Navy's rigid program was put into suspension and ultimately shut down.

In OTL wartime, the blimps based mostly at rapidly constructed gigantic timber hangars along the coasts (and later operating in the Caribbean, northern Brazil, and even on an expeditionary basis in the Mediterranean, self ferrying over from Brazil to West Africa and thence up the African coast) would go out to spot for U-boats. They never were credited with actually sinking a U-boat themselves, but as a general rule, the sub commanders quite understood their danger whenever a blimp was in line of sight and went down to hide, which was not always successful. (Then Doenitz ordered them to be more aggressive, they had deck guns after all, and at least one blimp was shot down when its own Lewis gun jammed). Overall the blimps, while not covered in sub-killing direct glory, still were a very effective form of ASW, often locating a sub for other assets to sink, and generally reducing their effectiveness by immobilizing them. Toward the end of the war the Navy had a hundred or so airborne and operational, mostly the K model. (The L-ships were smaller, and typically the model operated as commercial blimps postwar, including the fleet of Goodyear's own corporate flag-showing little fleet, also used as trainers in the war but also operational patrol ships).

Early in the war however, the Navy had almost none of these blimps, essentially all but a handful were built as wartime expedients, in truckload lots. Early coastal patrols involved models taken over from Goodyear's civil fleet that had a guy with a rifle aboard as its whole armament. But again the mission is not to wipe out the entire German and Japanese sub fleet but to spot intruders so someone else gets the glory of trying to sink them.

So--as a general thing, the Navy had the coastal defense mission, and by extension and with even greater logic, that of escorting convoys.

But the Navy brass had no stomach or interest for such a plebeian, inglorious role as shepherding grubby commerce up and down the American coasts and guarding convoys. They took no action and the outcome was the "Second Happy Time" for U-boats stationed on the west side of the Atlantic bagging ship after ship. Belatedly and grudgingly the brass came around to the idea that protecting this commerce was in fact a vital Navy mission.

So broadly speaking, the tendency of military strategic planners to fight the last war, and the glorious war they'd like rather than the inglorious hell war that is the winning strategy, comes under the rubric of my remarks on the inappropriateness of premature massive buildups of equipment sure to become obsolete fast, versus reserving the productive potential for making what is really needed when it is needed. It is not the same thing but it is the same kind of thing, relating to the inability of people to forecast exactly what the situation will be when war actually comes, as well as systemic biases that tend to arbitrarily rule things or strategies "good" based on theory and unrealistic test exercises--as with the poor performance of US torpedoes, because of politics shielding the Navy arsenal producing them from realistic accountability. In theory we can counsel perfection and shake our heads at political interference and tunnel vision, but realistically these things we shall have with us under any regime.

Again, it seems a counsel of perfection to ask for perfect foresight. Planners like Patton had a fair idea what they wanted and I suppose his notions of what tankers should learn to prepare for were sound enough; then he had to run practice exercises with plywood cutouts mounted on cars and sticks for guns. The Army Air Force was quite sure they could "put a bomb in a pickle barrel" and sink ships with high altitude bomb runs from B-17s, using the vaunted Norden Bombsight.

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy, and egregious oversights prior to the fighting started seems to just be par for the course.
 
Could the P-35 or P-36 have served as proof-of-concept? Both might be a bit underpowered (and under-gunned) for the role, but it's a place to start.
Also, both were radial engined, so better from the survivability standpoint - or at least that would be the perception

Both those planes did actually serve as springboards to more capable designs. The P-36 was redesigned into the P-40. And the P-35 led into the turbocharged P-43 that was further refined into the superb P-47.
 
Both those planes did actually serve as springboards to more capable designs. The P-36 was redesigned into the P-40. And the P-35 led into the turbocharged P-43 that was further refined into the superb P-47.

The P-40 was probably the 'best P-36'. 1st P-40s in service were barely more than P-36s with a new engine.
P-47 was a whole new aircraft vs. anything before it, including the P-43.
 
Dive bombing was pioneered by the USMC assisting the Somoza family to remain in power against the original Sandinistas under Sandino himself. Marine biplanes successfully (as far as hitting targets and doing damage was concerned, as usual in asymmetrical counterinsurgency war, it is hard to judge how much traditional military metrics apply in terms of success) attacked Sandinista positions. This was in the 1920s; American aviators of all services were quite enthused about dive bombing, especially Marines and Navy.

The Army Air Corps like the RAF was more dominated by advocates of "strategic air power," which whatever it might mean in a more sober, combat tested assessment, meant in the interwar years the theory that enemy civil populations would curl up in fear at terror bombing that strikes without warning out of the sky, and either politically demand an end to the war or anyway derange enemy capabilities with riotous disorder and general paralysis. This form of "victory through air power" was much touted in Italy, UK and USA, though not so much by the Third Reich or even Japan, nor did the Soviets ever seem to believe this thesis. In fact of course it was the experience of both sides that mass bombing of cities to spread this kind of terror did damage and killed people but never caused that sort of collapse. One simply cannot surrender to bombs after all; the survivors are left with a portion of the same society that was fighting the war before the bombing around them as the enforcers of order after the bombing, any defeatist talk would meet with little sympathy and much anger from people who redirect their grief and pain at the foes who dropped the bombs. WWII era factories could generally be put back into operation quite soon after being bombed.

So, American Army Air Corps/ USAAF types in the bomber mafia, like the British RAF Bomber Command mafia, wanted long range, high capacity, high altitude bombers that could drop big bomb loads (they fondly hoped, on target) a long way away, and somehow survive the gauntlet of interceptors and ground AA flying in and returning home--initially it was hoped that with multiple engines big bombers would be as fast or faster than the enemy's interceptors and so "the bomber will get through."

Such designs are not well suited for dive bombing of course, though the German commander Udet believed big planes could serve in that role too. But the Luftwaffe concept of a "big" bomber was more like the Anglo-American one of a "medium" bomber.

Dive bombing has never gone out of fashion entirely; my father, who flew 100+ combat missions out of Takhli in Thailand over North Vietnam in 1968, has mentioned dive bombing with his F-105 "Thud" more than once. But I believe it proved not to be the panacea interwar enthusiasts assumed, and other approaches were developed.

I believe a method called "skip-bombing" turned out to work better in sea applications, IIRC it involves the plane coming toward the target fast and low, and dropping bombs at the right height and moment, they tend to bounce off the water surface, lobbing them up and hopefully onto the target deck. This would involve the plane breaking course after releasing the bomb to roll and bank left or right, which as with dive bombing leaves the plane exposed to AA as it approaches and as it recedes, but I suppose coming in low on the deck offers some cover over the horizon, then the retreat hopefully involves the defender having aim spoiled by being bombed, and anyway the plane is not climbing, or climbing just a bit, and thus receding toward the horizon more rapidly, and perhaps a bit better able to jink. Dive bombing would be better for accuracy but aside from enemy efforts to get a bead on your fast approaching plane, and a sluggish escape vector if one attempts to climb rapidly again, it seems overall more likely the pilot will crash the plane--"target fascination" is a hazard.

So one hears about feats of dive-bombing but by and large I gather other methods have been more favored in practice. Still it was definitely something American warplane pilots had heard of and often practiced, and I suppose its major application was in tactical air support on the ground, which is one of the most important air power roles anyway--gaining air superiority over the battlefield is in service of enabling such uses.
 
I'm under the weather again, and hope that the slight fever I am running along with the periodic chills is a side effect of breathing the second hand pot smoke for the last three days from the addict upstairs. Coughing, phlegm, and now vomiting again! Oh what joy....

I will return when I recover.
 

Driftless

Donor
I'm under the weather again, and hope that the slight fever I am running along with the periodic chills is a side effect of breathing the second hand pot smoke for the last three days from the addict upstairs. Coughing, phlegm, and now vomiting again! Oh what joy....

I will return when I recover.
Take care!
 
The A-24, A-25, A-35 and A-31 were all 1-engined aircraft.
After there was Stuka Envy for dive bombers.
Note that the USAAC really didn't want them, and were not used operationally, but as trainers or field hacks. Only the A-24/Dauntless saw real combat. A-25 were turned over to the USMC. The other were Lend Lease. Army didn't want them
 

Driftless

Donor
After there was Stuka Envy for dive bombers.
Note that the USAAC really didn't want them, and were not used operationally, but as trainers or field hacks. Only the A-24/Dauntless saw real combat. A-25 were turned over to the USMC. The other were Lend Lease. Army didn't want them

How much of that was the strategic bomber Generals didn't want to be saddled with too much tactical AF work, as opposed to not understanding a useful application for the techniques? Later, in the war, they certainly adopted tactical support in a variety of forms.
 

Driftless

Donor
Could the US Army have used a Dakota/Wyoming/Nevada set of manuvers in the late '30's on par with the Louisiana and Carolina Manuvers? The OTL operations were a useful practice at all levels, but another set in either in the desert or winter weather would have been helpful too.
 
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Could the US Army have used a Dakota/Wyoming/Nevada set of manuvers in the late '30's on par with the Louisiana and Carolina Manuvers? The OTL operations were a useful practice at all levels, but another set in either in the desert or winter weather would have been helpful too.
When Gen McNair is setting the rules, you are going to get results that don't match results in real combat.

But running more gear in real conditions different from the East and South would be only for the better. US Boots were not so great in the cold.
Getting to an earlier rubber soled long boot that could be properly waterproofed would be a good thing, indeed
 
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