Stalin's Son Killed in Poland

corourke

Donor
here is a rough timeline I sketched out in German class today:

1939: Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the subsequent partition of Poland proceeds as in OTL, but Stalin's son is killed by Polish partisans in late 1939. This leads to a crackdown in Soviet Poland in which hundreds of Poles are killed and thousands deported to Sibera. Stalin develops a bitter distrust for the Poles. This harsh treatment of the Poles inspires the Nazis in Poland to pursue a policy of deportation rather than extermination. Polish are put in labor camps and promised land in the Ukraine and farther east when the time comes, but not murdered to the degree they were OTL.

1941: Operation Barbarossa. Some Poles on the Soviet side of the border see the relatively (relative being the operative word here) nicer conditions on the western side of the border revolt and join the Germans in their fight against the Soviets. It does not affect the German war effort much, but it is made out by the German propaganda machine to be a larger contribution than it is in an attempt to get other minorities under Soviet rule to revolt. This cements Stalin's hatred for the Poles.

1941-45: War on eastern and western fronts proceeds more or less as OTL and the war ends on schedule. Polish resistance to Soviet occupation is viciously suppressed.

1945: Stalin pushes Polish border back to that dictated in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, but keeps german borders in the east the same, resulting in a very reduced Poland. Danzig annexed by Soviet Union as a warm water port.

1949: GDR declared. Includes OTL GDR as well as East Prussia. West Germany declared.

1951: Stalin, feeling competiton from a rapidly reindustrializing West Germany, sponsors plebiscites in Soviet-Occupied Austria and Chezchosovakia that lead to the addition of Soviet Austria and the Sudetenland to the GDR. The addition of the industrial regions of the Sudetenland and eastern Austria help the GDR to better compete with its western counterpart, though it is still eventually outpaced by the capitalists in the west.

1952: Plebiscites in Western Austria lead to the admission of Austria as a free state of the same approximate status as Bavaria in West Germany.

altDDR.gif

The red line is the border between East and West Germany.
Grey lines are the borders before 1952.

What do you guys think of this? What happens when the Soviet Union falls? Can the GDR stand on its own?

edit: don't pay attention to the provinces within each country. I forgot to change those.

edit2: updated map, removed split of Czechia and Slovakia:
altDDR2.gif
 
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Something tells me the fall of the GDR (barring French or Russian military intervention) is inevitable--the German people disliked being divided.
 

Glen

Moderator
Okay, I sorta get the Poland thing, but why is Stalin giving territory to the East Germans? If he has that territory already under his thumb as communist block nations, why bother? And why is Czechia and Slovakia separate?
 

corourke

Donor
He's giving territory to the East Germans sort of as a symbolic gesture - He wants his pet project, the GDR, to outperform its western counterpart and show the world how much great communism is.

Oh and Czechia and Slovakia broke up shortly after the Sudetenland was removed from Czechia. The freedom the Germans got caused the Slovakians to want a separate Slovakian state. Or not. It's a minor point, really.
 

Glen

Moderator
corourke said:
He's giving territory to the East Germans sort of as a symbolic gesture - He wants his pet project, the GDR, to outperform its western counterpart and show the world how much great communism is.

Oh and Czechia and Slovakia broke up shortly after the Sudetenland was removed from Czechia. The freedom the Germans got caused the Slovakians to want a separate Slovakian state. Or not. It's a minor point, really.

So it is essentially a propaganda stunt. Interesting. I'd probably keep the Czechs and Slovaks together, however.
 

corourke

Donor
Glen Finney said:
So it is essentially a propaganda stunt.

It doesn't seem above Stalin to try something like this.

So how does France feel about the possibility of an enormous Germany unifying on her front doorstep?
 

Glen

Moderator
corourke said:
It doesn't seem above Stalin to try something like this.

So how does France feel about the possibility of an enormous Germany unifying on her front doorstep?

If this is following otherwise a parallel history to OTL, presumably by that time there will be little opposition to reunification of a thoroughly EU ensconced West Germany and an economically drained East Germany, even if they are larger.
 
I think the agreement to deport the Sudeten Germans had gone on by 1951. And even so, I really don't see Stalin not deporting the Sudeten Germans, as to allow them to join Germany (or to allow an Anschluss) would prove that Hitler was right in his unification of Germany. Thus I don't see that or the Austria thing happening.
 

corourke

Donor
I didn't change Hungary from the original map. It's intended to be the same size.

CH is Switzerland's country code. It is also unaltered from the original map.
 
Switzerland is the Schweiz in German.

I don't see the sudetenland/ austria thing happening but if it did, after the reunification of Germany, I could see a autonomy or indpendence movement in austria, there is a distinct difference between Germans and austrians, I suppose a bit like the Baden Wurtemburg (swabia) and Bavaria rivalry, but a bit more. I could see German or Poland also trying to buy/annex danzig after the communist collapse.
 
Odin said:
Switzerland is the Schweiz in German.

I don't see the sudetenland/ austria thing happening but if it did, after the reunification of Germany, I could see a autonomy or indpendence movement in austria, there is a distinct difference between Germans and austrians, I suppose a bit like the Baden Wurtemburg (swabia) and Bavaria rivalry, but a bit more. I could see German or Poland also trying to buy/annex danzig after the communist collapse.
I don't see Austria seeking special autonomy in an enlarged reunited Germany. Also, I think Russia would keep Danzig, as it still has Kaliningrad in our timeline.
 
I think it's more likely that he would punish the Czechs for not fighting the Germans the way the Serbs and Poles did. I do wonder why he did not deport all the Rumanians from Moldova in response to the Rumanians fighting on the German side. He did deport some and move in Ukrainians and Russians.
 
wkwillis said:
I think it's more likely that he would punish the Czechs for not fighting the Germans the way the Serbs and Poles did. I do wonder why he did not deport all the Rumanians from Moldova in response to the Rumanians fighting on the German side. He did deport some and move in Ukrainians and Russians.
That's a very good question. I don't know the answer. Maybe because of their Orthodox roots, whereas Poles are mostly Roman Catholic?
 
corourke said:
This leads to a crackdown in Soviet Poland in which hundreds of Poles are killed and thousands deported to Sibera. Stalin develops a bitter distrust for the Poles.

How is this different from what actually happened?
 
Bulgaroktonos said:
How is this different from what actually happened?
I Agree, Stalin was already insanely burtal towards the Poles, Balts, and Ukrainians occupied in '39. It didn't help turn (most) of peoples into pro-Germans, however because the Nazis were outright trying to exterminate them. You'd have to seriously chnage the mindset of Hitler regarding Slavs as undermeinchen (sp?) [I mean sub-humans].
 
Sir Isaac Brock said:
I Agree, Stalin was already insanely burtal towards the Poles, Balts, and Ukrainians occupied in '39. It didn't help turn (most) of peoples into pro-Germans, however because the Nazis were outright trying to exterminate them. You'd have to seriously chnage the mindset of Hitler regarding Slavs as undermeinchen (sp?) [I mean sub-humans].
No, just kill Hitler.
Whoever took over would be more practical. The Russians are enserfed, not exterminated, no matter who takes over. They are second class citizens used to lower wages for working class Germans if some typical person takes over. Possibly some national socialist worker's party reformist type just moves the borders around and wipes out the upper classes of the rest of Europe. Eventually the untermenschen work their way up to de facto citizenship as the inevitably rebuilt German upper class uses them to lower wages for working class Germans.
It's just the way that people that run things think.
 
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