Stalingrad West! - A Red/BW joint TL

His mouth was watering (Chapter 20)

Manstein's western command post, Essen Germany December 1944

The last 4 months had been a whirlwind for Generalissimo Von Manstein, and severely disappointing to the western alliance.

On his end, the treaty of Stockholm bore fruit. An ost wall was steadily being constructed along the old border and he had successfully transferred all of the Volksgrenadier divisions there to comply with the treaty and the first round of inspections had gone off without a hitch. Meanwhile, he had transferred forces West for the decisive battle against the allies. Goering's pet Luftwaffe field divisions where broken up, and their personel reassigned either to the army or to Kesselring's reorganizing efforts. Manstein ended the absurd practicing of creating new formations at the expense of existing ones and shattered formations where merged together into new full strength divisions. The core of the Luftwaffe returned to the west and numerous aces including Eric Hartmann began to try to contest the skies more aggressively, benefitting from Manstein's decision to open 3 additional fighter schools. Tank strength in the west ballooned to over three thousand vehicles and thousands of highly lethal dual purpose AT/AA guns where sown in great concentrations along the Meuse and Aisne lines.

For the West it was a tough story. Operation Anvil/Dragoon had landed troops along southern France. However, again the allies refused to learn the lesson that airborne operations where disasters waiting to happen, and two more fine divisions where chopped up by Hoth's well placed machine gun nests in the manner of their brothers two months before. Otherwise they had a relatively easy advance up the Rhone valley, with German rear guards only periodically stopping to fight... the men enemies of the southern forces where time, huge crowds of refugees and terrain systematically destroyed and mined by the Germans on their way to the east. Anvil/Dragoon effectively outflanked the Seine line by the first week in September and the Germans began their preplanned withdrawl to the Aisne. Eisenhower's forces advanced into the devastated landscape again crowded with refugees as the Germans conducted a scorched earth withdrawal. Ike was desperate for a moral victory during the fall campaign and hurled the combined strength of the Overlord and Anvil troops against the Aisne line... unfortunatly quality divisions had already started to return from the East, and the high quality of the Aisne line's construction became apparant as the allies suffered heavy casualties, and a severe wound to their pride. Von Manstein, not wishing to be so far forward into the winter, and knowing his position was still vulnerable to another attack retired at the end of September to his new Meuse line which had been under construction for months.

Politics where equally ugly. FDR and Churchill where stunned when their Soviet counterparts announced they where seeking peace terms with Germany. Inquiries where met with "We must end the war for the good of the Russian people, we have liberated out borders and we can suffer no more, your losses are a trifle whilst ours are in the millions" This lead to quite a bit of negative feeling across the homefront's of America and the UK. Despite Marshal's pleas Ike could no longer be spared, he hadn't given the nation the significant victory they so desperately needed in the face of the Russians leaving the war. He was publicly sacked for lack of progress, and wasting of resources... whilst this particular move was popular amongst the British army (who felt Ike lacked in a lot of command qualities) they where equally stunned by his announced replacement.

Mark Clark, the captor of Rome would be brought in to take over the front in Northwest Europe. FDR reasoned that even if Clark was one to take heavy losses, at least he went some where and killed some Germans in the process.

It was against this backdrop that Von Manstein found himself in the winter of 1944. The Luftwaffe weather service had reported that there would be terrible weather for at least a week ahead, grounding the allied airforces. The Generalissimo massed 14 armored and motorized divisions and 30 infantry divisions for his great attack, with another 4 mobile divisions and 8 infantry divisions in reserve, with eastern divisions comming online everyday numerical superiority shifted over to the Germans in the decisive sectors he had chose to attack. On his giant strategic mapboard of Europe hung on the wall that Manstein was fond of using since his takeover there was a picture of the new allied commander "jackass Clark"

Von Manstein pushed himself back from his desk, leisurely tossed a dart at the photo hitting Jackass Clark in the neck. The old Prussian grinned at his luck and fortune and went to give the order to commence operation Wacht on Rhine.

THE END!!

Thank you all so much for reading the Red and I's latest joint project Stalingrad West! Your comments and viewership are always appreciated and inspiring.

Red and I would like to solicit your thoughts on the last few updates, and your overall thoughts on the tl

Thanx for reading

-BW749
 
Personally I want to see how a Rommel vs Giap matchup would go. Maybe that might be your next project?;)

And that was a non-subtle title there, BW. Loved it.:D
 
No. Russia seeking peace in '44. simply no, even after a loos of Konev's (was it his?) army. They will regroup, rebuild and attack, even if they can't field a new major offensive in '44. By '44 Stalin and USSR were obsessed with crushing Germany and only end of war in their eyes was Red Army in Berlin.

I'm extremely annoyed by this AH.com version of Stalin that keeps agreeing on peace with Germany in '44 and '45 after first 4 years of WWII being OTL or very close to it. Still remember one TL where after magical countering to Bagration, Stalin goes for peace with Germany, and decides to make war to Western Allies in "if I can't conquer East Europe I'll make war on Allies and steal their colonial territories".

In '44 Allied strategic bombing campaign is taking its tall and all industrial regions of Germany are in Allied bomber range, as well as Ploesti oil fields.

And Oppenheimer's light comes to Berlin in august of '45.


In this TL only option for new Germany is to start begging for conditional peace and pre Munchen borders.
 
No. Russia seeking peace in '44. simply no, even after a loos of Konev's (was it his?) army. They will regroup, rebuild and attack, even if they can't field a new major offensive in '44. By '44 Stalin and USSR were obsessed with crushing Germany and only end of war in their eyes was Red Army in Berlin.

That strategy is not in the Soviet Unions best interests, unlike OTL. IOTL the massive success of both D-Day and Bagration ensured Germany's imminent defeat, here both have been somewhat successful but have both jarred to a halt without achieving the critical finishing blows they did IOTL. Now Stalin has to launch another offensive against a well prepared defence line on the San, where more men and material will be lost whilst the Western Allies sit on the sidelines as always, launching an invasion of the Phillipines whilst his own men are left to destroy the most dangerous enemy. This gradual resentment will have been building up for a while now, especially with the Allies halting after a relatively puny counter attack (by Eastern Front standards) and the increasingly grim manpower and food situation in the Soviet Union.

The way Stalin sees it, he's kicked the Germans out of Soviet territory, extended his borders to Tsarist Russia, been given back million of prisoners and given a way out of having to put millions of troops on the new German border. It's a pretty favourable situation as he sees it, giving him time of smash Japan in Asia one year early whilst the Germans and Anglo-Americans tear each other apart leaving them both rope for the picking when the eventual victor arises.

I'm extremely annoyed by this AH.com version of Stalin that keeps agreeing on peace with Germany in '44 and '45 after first 4 years of WWII being OTL or very close to it.

I wouldn't say this is very close to OTL.

In '44 Allied strategic bombing campaign is taking its tall and all industrial regions of Germany are in Allied bomber range, as well as Ploesti oil fields.

German war production will still increase as it did historically and with Goering gone there's a chance to finally sort out the Luftwaffe under its new head (Galland maybe?), improving it as a fighting force. Also there a re hundreds of planes freed up from the Eastern Front now

And Oppenheimer's light comes to Berlin in august of '45.

Presuming the war goes on that long.

In this TL only option for new Germany is to start begging for conditional peace and pre Munchen borders.

Prussian Field Marshals do not surrender. ;)
 
I would not pick Mark Clark to be the Commander of Anything, He was not well like by the troops that served under him and he had the mentality of the Generals that fought WW1. He would just throw troops under his command.
I doubt if the British would be willing to put there forces under his" Supreme Command" He would have far more problems dealing with the French than did Eisenhower. It might have been a better idea to send George Marshal over as the Supreme allied commander.
 
I would not pick Mark Clark to be the Commander of Anything, He was not well like by the troops that served under him and he had the mentality of the Generals that fought WW1. He would just throw troops under his command.
I doubt if the British would be willing to put there forces under his" Supreme Command" He would have far more problems dealing with the French than did Eisenhower. It might have been a better idea to send George Marshal over as the Supreme allied commander.

Ike was never going to let Marshal leave washington and Clark had extensive contacts with the French government and French troops (he commanded a french corps in Italy) and was key in getting connections with Vichy... I agree he's a tool/waster of men... but in a situation where Ike is being fired, and Patton has allready been fired, and Bradley hasn't particularly distinguished himself in Northwest Europe, Clark is the next most senior commander. And given the manpower disparities and lendlease the British don't get to object too much to the supreme commander, especially since they had been subordinating their units to clark off and on in the past
 
To be continued?

Von Manstein pushed himself back from his desk, leisurely tossed a dart at the photo hitting Jackass Clark in the neck. The old Prussian grinned at his luck and fortune and went to give the order to commence operation Wacht on Rhine.

THE END!!

And that is it? This has been an excellent TL and I enjoyed reading it - I'd be looking forward to a second part. Is Wacht am Rhein going to decide the war in the west?
 
FDR Might have no choice in allowing Marshal to go. If Ike was fired the choice of Clark would be seen by the British as a stupid move. He was not well regarded by the British C-in- in the Med.

Of Course FDR could have ordered MacArthur to take the Post. The is no way that he would have turned down the Supreme allied command in Europe for remaining in the backwater command in the Pacific.
 
FDR Might have no choice in allowing Marshal to go. If Ike was fired the choice of Clark would be seen by the British as a stupid move. He was not well regarded by the British C-in- in the Med.

Of Course FDR could have ordered MacArthur to take the Post. The is no way that he would have turned down the Supreme allied command in Europe for remaining in the backwater command in the Pacific.

I know Alexander was Winnie's boy and all but to be honest the Brits didn't want Ike to be in charge either, but given that the American's where taking the lions share of the manpower and equipment burden the choice rested with them.

Clark in this scenario would be a likely choice, he had command experience working with the French and British, and practice at assaulting fortified lines... its almost logical in a perplexing way

Macaurther wouldn't be brought in... his ego was so massive he couldn't work with other branches in his own country let alone from allies who may or may not enjoy his advice... Marshal would be smart enough to see this and not make that choice
 
Alas, poor Poland once again it ends a TL as the Polish SSR/part of Germany.:(

Still Germany is at the end of it’s rope by 1944. And once this war is finished the German demographic situation will be dire. The number of men between 16 to 60 I.E military age will be drastically pruned.

It’s also ruled by a junta which, lets face it is one reminiscent of a South American banana republic which just happens to have a really great army and lots of unreformed Nazi scum in it's ranks. Seeing the continuing war and privations would be interesting as there's no real way the Germans can throw the Allies back into the sea.

Still it'd make a good sequel.:)
 
The is a far better choice that could be made than Mark Clark, Lt General Joseph Stillwell was available. The Man was highly respected by the Army's chief of staff and the President of the Unted States. He had worked with the British and the Chinese and unlike Clark he lead from the front not behind a desk.
There would be a lot of politican in Washington that would question the wisdom of appointing a man who was responsible for the deaths of so many Americans in the Italian Campaign. The mess at Anzio, the bombing og the monastery at Monte Casino would be brought up. did the President need that headache, besides his health was beginning a steady decline at this point(FDR).
 
The is a far better choice that could be made than Mark Clark, Lt General Joseph Stillwell was available. The Man was highly respected by the Army's chief of staff and the President of the Unted States. He had worked with the British and the Chinese and unlike Clark he lead from the front not behind a desk.
There would be a lot of politican in Washington that would question the wisdom of appointing a man who was responsible for the deaths of so many Americans in the Italian Campaign. The mess at Anzio, the bombing og the monastery at Monte Casino would be brought up. did the President need that headache, besides his health was beginning a steady decline at this point(FDR).

Red and I aren't seeking to justify Clark... the man's failures speak for themselves... he was just a running character in the TL and it seemed a nifty if not twisted place to put him

We are going to pick the tl back up at a later date and Clark will be a linchpin character
 
Ah excellent timeline, it was very enjoyable to read.

Im going to predict that in the sequal WoR ends up as a failure. Why? Cause its the twist no one would expect. Along with being a shock to the people who said this was a german wank all this time. :D
 
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