Stalin Supports the Warsaw Uprising

So, by the time the Red Army reached the Vistula, there were about a million reasons why the Soviets just sat back and held their position while the Polish rebels just a few miles away tried, and failed after several months, to uproot the Nazis from their capital. The Russians were tired, dis-organised, overstretched, and most importantly, Stalin did not give a mad-ass fuck, since helping out potentially non-Quisling Poles had nothing in it for him or his plans for a secure buffer zone of satellites.

But say that, perhaps convinced by his generals, perhaps as part of some greater calculation, Stalin orders that the rebels be supported and an invasion of Warsaw be attempted.

What happens?
 
So, by the time the Red Army reached the Vistula, there were about a million reasons why the Soviets just sat back and held their position while the Polish rebels just a few miles away tried, and failed after several months, to uproot the Nazis from their capital. The Russians were tired, dis-organised, overstretched, and most importantly, Stalin did not give a mad-ass fuck, since helping out potentially non-Quisling Poles had nothing in it for him or his plans for a secure buffer zone of satellites.

But say that, perhaps convinced by his generals, perhaps as part of some greater calculation, Stalin orders that the rebels be supported and an invasion of Warsaw be attempted.

What happens?

Soviets get a slightly better wrap.

Pictures of the Red Army and Polish underground fighting side by side against the brutal Germans.

Better post cold war relations
 
So, by the time the Red Army reached the Vistula, there were about a million reasons why the Soviets just sat back and held their position while the Polish rebels just a few miles away tried, and failed after several months, to uproot the Nazis from their capital. The Russians were tired, dis-organised, overstretched, and most importantly, Stalin did not give a mad-ass fuck, since helping out potentially non-Quisling Poles had nothing in it for him or his plans for a secure buffer zone of satellites.

But say that, perhaps convinced by his generals, perhaps as part of some greater calculation, Stalin orders that the rebels be supported and an invasion of Warsaw be attempted.

What happens?

Well Stalin like Hitler is not one to listen to his Generals. If the Uprising broke out of the Ghettos wiped up popular support in other areas of Eastern Europe and gets significant support from the west then Stalin will go in all guns blazing to secure better post WW2 borders. That would make for an intresting TL with East-West divide on the Visula instead of Germany but would require an POD probably pre WW2.

Yours Bobbis
 
Well Stalin like Hitler is not one to listen to his Generals. If the Uprising broke out of the Ghettos wiped up popular support in other areas of Eastern Europe and gets significant support from the west then Stalin will go in all guns blazing to secure better post WW2 borders. That would make for an intresting TL with East-West divide on the Visula instead of Germany but would require an POD probably pre WW2.

Yours Bobbis

Well not necessarily.

Market Garden could have siceeded or the Allies could have continued on to the Rhine in the Autumn of 1944.
 
Well not necessarily.

Market Garden could have siceeded or the Allies could have continued on to the Rhine in the Autumn of 1944.

Yes but if you're making a TL where you have post ww2 vistula borders you can bend history how you like (within reason) - I didnt say that would be inevitable only intresting
 
So, by the time the Red Army reached the Vistula, there were about a million reasons why the Soviets just sat back and held their position while the Polish rebels just a few miles away tried, and failed after several months, to uproot the Nazis from their capital. The Russians were tired, dis-organised, overstretched, and most importantly, Stalin did not give a mad-ass fuck, since helping out potentially non-Quisling Poles had nothing in it for him or his plans for a secure buffer zone of satellites.

But say that, perhaps convinced by his generals, perhaps as part of some greater calculation, Stalin orders that the rebels be supported and an invasion of Warsaw be attempted.

What happens?
Not the least thing is that the rebellion was started early enough in order to get the city out off the Nazis before the Soviet army was able to interfere.
 
Originally posted by bobbis14
Well Stalin like Hitler is not one to listen to his Generals. If the Uprising broke out of the Ghettos wiped up popular support in other areas of Eastern Europe and gets significant support from the west then Stalin will go in all guns blazing to secure better post WW2 borders. That would make for an intresting TL with East-West divide on the Visula instead of Germany but would require an POD probably pre WW2.

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (1943) and Warsaw Uprising (1944) are NOT one and the same thing (obviously).
Now, realistically speaking Stalin was the only one who could really help Warsaw Uprising. Western Allies could have made some supply drops, but without Stalin's permission to land on Soviet airfields it was very difficult and losses were very big (sometimes even caused by Soviets, not Germans). However, since Stalin did not want an independent Poland he not only refused to help Warsaw, but even discouraged Allies from trying.
What Stalin could do:
- send Soviet military mission to coordinate Red Army actions with Polish Home Army
- establish Soviet air superiority over Warsaw to eliminate Luftwaffe actions and offer support for the Poles
- start supply drops for the insurgents (with captured German weapons and ammo, if possible - Polish fighters were familiar with them)
- allow Allied planes making supply drops to land in Soviet bases (or even operate from them)
- actually order Red Army to press forward to Warsaw, instead of ordering it to stop all actions in that area
- after capturing eastern part of Warsaw actively support Polish 1st Army in crossing the Vistula (if Stalin didn't want to send Red Army)
- after capturing eastern part of Warsaw offer artillery support for Polish fighters coordinated by Soviet military mission mentioned above.

There is also a matter of Polish 1st Parachute Brigade. I must say I see no way of getting it to Warsaw in August 1944. Polish Brigade was in Britain - sending large force of slow and easy to destroy cargo planes over heavily defended Germany would have been a suicide - for the Brigade and for the air crews. Even if they had tried to use bombers, it would have been extremely risky - not to mention how many bombers it would have taken to transport such a big unit with equipment and supplies.
Even if the Allies had tried to send the Brigade from Italy (and getting it there also takes time) all points mentioned above apply here as well.
The only even remotely realistic way the Brigade could have reached Warsaw was from east. Let's assume Stalin agrees. Now, we have to transport whole brigade from Britain to USSR (or Soviet controlled territory) - it takes a lot of time and resources. And then an air drop over a town - high losses guaranteed (not that it would have stopped Polish paras from trying). Other possible place of landing is the Kampinos Forest near Warsaw, but landing in a forest is also not recommended for an ariborne unit.

Personally, I beliveve that if Stalin really had wanted to help Warsaw, it wouldn't have been hard for the Red Army to do it. In my opinion Warsaw could have been fully liberated in late August 1944 (or even a little earlier).
 
Wikipedia becomes a whole lot less annoying?
Don't hold your breath. Stalin, in all likelyhood, would still Sovetize Poland post-war, even if full co-operation between AK and Red Army had been achieved in Warsaw, and the rest (rampaging Moloboism, blaming Russia/USSR for every existing or imagined ill of the universe) would inevitably follow after Poland is let go by the USSR (I would like to use this opportunity to stress once more that NONE of former ComBloc countries actually WON their independce against Soviet resistance or mere unwillingness to leave them alone; they were simply let go once USSR decided it does not make sense to keep them any longer. The same statement is fully applicable to Balts and Russia within USSR; Baltic independence had been fought for and won in Moscow and SPb, by Russians and other ethnic goups who lived there).
 
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