Stalin goes West 1945
- Thread starter Brilliantlight
- Start date
Brilliantlight
Banned
JimmyJimJam said:
He also seems to have no conception of the idea that transporting divisions of men along with their supplies 3000 miles is NOT an easy thing to do. Each transport ship had to have sailors and supplies along with their escort ships including any escort carriers and the men for their planes etc. Even the US doesn't have endless supplies of manpower and capital.
Brilliantlight
Banned
JimmyJimJam said:
The US had to transport divisions of men and tanks about 3000 miles to the UK and then from England to France. This is not a walk in the park no matter what the Russians say.
Read Fox on the Front
Fox on the Front covers this secaniro if anyone would like to read it. I would think Stalin's own greed would be his reason for attacking west across the Elbe. Russian red strecthign from the Atlantic to the Pacific? Might be tempting to the Soviet leader. American ground troops would be hard pressed to stop Russian T-34/85s and JS-3s. Although how would an upgunded Sherman do against a T-34? Germany would fight for the Allies (Hitler would need to be dead). France and Britain would stick with us. Also the first atomic bombs would be used on Soviet forces as oppsed to Japan. Maybe the use of an Atomic bomb on Russian troops or a city would convince the Japanese to surrender anyway?
Fox on the Front covers this secaniro if anyone would like to read it. I would think Stalin's own greed would be his reason for attacking west across the Elbe. Russian red strecthign from the Atlantic to the Pacific? Might be tempting to the Soviet leader. American ground troops would be hard pressed to stop Russian T-34/85s and JS-3s. Although how would an upgunded Sherman do against a T-34? Germany would fight for the Allies (Hitler would need to be dead). France and Britain would stick with us. Also the first atomic bombs would be used on Soviet forces as oppsed to Japan. Maybe the use of an Atomic bomb on Russian troops or a city would convince the Japanese to surrender anyway?
Brilliantlight said:
Gotcha. I'm curious. Since many of the people who frequent this board seem to be very knowledgable about such things, what was left of the Wehrmacht/SS/Luftwaffe on V-E day? I know the Allies and Soviets took thousands of Germans prisoner, but I have no idea what shape they might be in to see more combat. In the event of war with the Soviets, what might the Allies do in terms of possibly employing Germans? Simply reconstitute the Wehrmact divsions as best they can? What would they do about leadership? Equipment? Political ramifications? Why would Hitler have to be dead?
Brilliantlight
Banned
JimmyJimJam said:
After the Normandy invasion the US captured a bunch of French cities which makes it much easier they can go straight into France like in WWI. There is no need for huge convoys when there isn't a Uboat fleet out there trying to sink it or the Luftwaffe trying to do the same. The Russian Air Force may last a few weeks, no more and the Russian navy was a joke. All this means that the Allies have the ability to decommision many ships and free up the manpower for the infantry and merchant marine.
Brilliantlight said:
The Soviets had a sub fleet that they would use .
Also what makes you think that the Soviet Air Force would only last a few weeks . At this time there Airforce is larger then the RAF . The Yak9-U can stand up to the P-51 and Spits of the RAF as could the La -7 .
This is not a German Airforce with no were to train . I think the US airforce would have a harder time than you think . As to Bombing the Soviets with B-17 and B-24 They would not have the range to hit the Soviet Factories .
As for the A-bomb would the soviet spys let the US build more bombs or would the make sure that the plants were sabatoged .
The only US tanks that could stop the Soviet tanks would be the M-26 and there were not a lot of those in europe .
Plus I think the Aillieds Airforces would Know that they were at war is when the Pe-8 and stormavics attack there bases ,
I think the western Allieds would have a harder time then most of you think they would .
Brilliantlight
Banned
Ward said:
The Soviet air force had numbers but not very good pilots or equipment. The Germans figured one Western Ally plane was worth 3 Russian. They simply had many more planes then the Luftwaffe had in the area. That would NOT be true against the USSAF which had EVERYTHING going for it: better planes and pilots along with much bigger numbers.
Ward said:
I don't think think that anybody is saying the Western Allies vs. Stalin would be a cake walk, it would be a hard slog. However, the WA had some advantages, particularly in the areas of production and air power. True, the B-17 and B-24 couldn't reach the USSR, but the B-29 could, and you better believe that the production of these would increase, and the USSR factories would be bombed night and day.
Still, victory doesn'tcome from the sky, you still have to field an army that can be supplied. The Soviets wouldn't be able to do this because the WA would be able to interdict just about everything.
I believe that after the first victories, the USSR would be thrown on the defensive, and eventually collapse.
Brilliantlight
Banned
Main problems for the Russians are logistics and morale. The number of draftible men was dwindling fast, since the same thing was happening in Germany it didn't matter. Although the same thing could be seen in England it was not true for the US. The scary thing is that the US was still gearing up (a year earlier) for war. It was only gearing down in 1945 since it was starting to be obvious the war would end soon. Of all the major powers it was the only one not "maxed out" in military production. Russia could only replace its infantry and tank losses by reducing men in other areas of the war effort. Also the USSR was dependent on Lend-Lease during the war and that would not be availible. The Soviets were able to survive that in OTL because the war did not continue and so it used up men and equipment at a peacetime rate. In this TL it is using up men and equipment at a wartime rate which is MUCH higher.
Morale would be a problem because Russia had just won a long and bloody war against Germany and now they are being asked to fight America and the British Empire. A lot of them would wonder why they are doing so. Stalin could fabricate a reason but many of the troops didn't trust Stalin too much. The fought to save "Mother Russia" and their lives not for Joesoph Stalin.
Morale would be a problem because Russia had just won a long and bloody war against Germany and now they are being asked to fight America and the British Empire. A lot of them would wonder why they are doing so. Stalin could fabricate a reason but many of the troops didn't trust Stalin too much. The fought to save "Mother Russia" and their lives not for Joesoph Stalin.
I'm going to favor the argument that the Russians would have an initial advantage, simply because there are millions upon millions of men coming at the Allied troops, but in the end, US industrial strength is going to quash it. The Tiger tank was a tough bastard, far stronger than the T-34, not all around, but in regards of armor and such. I heard the ratio was something like 7 or 8 Shermans for every Tiger. The Germans would say that "Yes, we can kill 7 Shermans, but the Americans always have 8." The same applies here. Regardless of whatever deficiencies the Allied troops might have in armor, they make up for in quantity. The T-34s would be drowned by sheer numbers. The Soviet Air Force could not compete with the Allied Air Force, nor could their navy.
And what was the operational distance of the B-29? If placed in Turkey, India, or perhaps Persia, could it reach the Soviet factories east of hte Urals?
And what was the operational distance of the B-29? If placed in Turkey, India, or perhaps Persia, could it reach the Soviet factories east of hte Urals?
Flocculencio
Donor
Ward said:
Just a random thought- could the Allies feasibly strike at the Soviet's central Asian territories from British India? Would this be of any use?
You mean to tell me that the WA did not have any Me262's in their hands in 1945? Even if they didn't, it seems like the technical knowhow the WA would get from the Germans would favor them more than the Soviets, considering both the US and Britain had been working on jet technology much more than the USSR.
Brilliantlight
Banned
Bulgaroktonos said:
Also the US was quickly improving the Sherman at the end of the war and it would have improved more over time as R&D money would be pouring into it. I figure the Russians would have inferior tanks within a couple of years or so.