Stalin dies at birth

bard32

Banned
All right, here's a different scenario for you. What if Stalin dies at birth?
Who would later command Soviet troops at Tsaritsin, later known as Stalingrad, during the Russian Revolution?
 

bard32

Banned
That. AE, is debatable. Since Stalin, like the Czar's secret police, claimed he
was born in 1879. I remember hearing that on a program about Stalin on the
Discovery Channel a few years ago. The fact is, that Stalin and the Czar's
secret police, both claimed that he was born a later, as I said before.
 
That. AE, is debatable. Since Stalin, like the Czar's secret police, claimed he
was born in 1879. I remember hearing that on a program about Stalin on the
Discovery Channel a few years ago. The fact is, that Stalin and the Czar's
secret police, both claimed that he was born a later, as I said before.

Whatever... :rolleyes:

The fact remains that he was born in the late 1870s...

Whatever else happens since then due to butterflies is important...
 
As AE said, there is around forty years between his birth and the Revolution. It's not going to happen the exact same way.
 

bard32

Banned
Very true. Since Lenin didn't want Stalin succeed him in the first place,
his wishes would have been respected by the Party bosses. The Battle of Trotskygrad sounds good in this timeline. Not so in ours, since Stalin and Trotsky hated each other and Stalin had him killed by a Mexican communist
wielding an ice pick in 1940.
 
Very true. Since Lenin didn't want Stalin succeed him in the first place,
his wishes would have been respected by the Party bosses. The Battle of Trotskygrad sounds good in this timeline. Not so in ours, since Stalin and Trotsky hated each other and Stalin had him killed by a Mexican communist
wielding an ice pick in 1940.
You're still ignoring butterflies.
 
Lenin believe Trotsky would be the best person to succeed him, he didn't want Stalin to be the successor.

That's true but Lenin also regarded Stalin to be of some importance because of him being the only real "proletarian" in the upper ranks of the Party, aside from Kalinin but he was more of a kind of peasant guy.
 
i have lived in soviet union, so this is a very interesting question...
i don't know who would have led the red army in stalingrad. maybe germans would have succeeded...
but would the communism be more humane if stalin had died at birth?
or our people hadn't been deported to siberia?

the fact is that stalin destroyed systematically entire classes of people (intellectuals, aristocrats, rich peasants) to create soviet union. and if stalin had died at birth, russia and most of the eastern europe wouldn't be so underdeveloped as it is today...
 
There would likely still be a Russian Revolution at some point.

When such a revolution would succeed could well be different. It may well be communist, it may well not be. I expect that something analogous to the communists have a go, but whether they'll succeed, who knows?

By 1942, the world is likely to be unrecognisable to ours. The likelihood of a Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia fighting to the death for the tractor factory in the middle of Volgograd is virtually nil.
 
i am just reading a AH about that thing - it claims that if stalin did die at birth, then there would be an anarchist country which in the end is ruled by military...
 
Lenin believe Trotsky would be the best person to succeed him, he didn't want Stalin to be the successor.
Not quite true - in his final notes Lenin criticized nearly everyone in the upper echelons of the CP for one reason or another (Stalin, in particular, was considered too rude). Lenin made the bad mistake of not selecting anyone to succeed him - he probably regarded the Party as able to get along without him well enough.
 
with Trotsky in power there would be no nazy germany as he would try his best to inforce the ideas of the internacionala and support actively any and all comunist or socialist parties in europe and azia, as best as soviet economy could manage affcourse

this means the german socialists would get arms, truckloads of them, the warious post war revolutions in east europe would be mostly sucesfull, the italian left would be told or even ordered to stand up to fashists, and the spanish civil war would probbably not end as it did, wath with italy and germany in civil war themselwes
comunist parties around the world would be more numerous more autonomus and much more efficient
in the end even if the whole of europe would not necessarily become comunist the distribution and nature of comunism and socialism in the world would be much different

(all these things staljin did not do as he considered the internacionala to be a waste of time, without real geostartegic or political importance for him personaly as well as the soviet empire, and demanded total obedience of comunist parties in other countries, basically making them visarionović fan clubs incapable of real action
he denied help to the german comunists in the 20is, and for various relatively apsurd reasons limited the help he sent republican spain to political comesars that took care that ewerithing is done PC acording to staljinist worldwiew, ewen to the poin of shooting people on theyr own side, and seweral boatloads of old weapons, just to show he cares)

on the other hand all this would cause largescale mobilisation of the worldwide reaction, and there would probbably be france and england arming franco and mussolini and cracking down heavily on its own socialists movements, with a domino effect theory developing long before 1950, and the red terror scare causing wars all ower the world possibly even the cause of WWII

and this all belongs to the post 1900 forum
 
The Soviet Union would be incredibly different if Russian Colonel Sanders* was leader. He was more for democracy than Stalin - the government would still be mildly regime-ish, but the people would have a voice, since Marx did talk about a "dictatorship of the proletariate," IE DEMOCRACY even though Marx decried democracy, so basically what the fuck was he talking about?

*Seriously, Trotsky looked like Colonel Sanders.
 
Are you guys really sure Trotsky would end up as the head? There were quite a few people at the top that didn't particularly like Trotsky and saw him as a Bonaparte figure to their revolution.
 
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