SSNs for the Canadian Navy

MacCaulay

Banned
As most of you probably know, the Canadian Navy currently "operates" four diesel Victoria-class submarines. These were bought from Britain, but have had a lot of problems, all of which others could probably go into.
I'll just mention the poor case of Chicoutimi, which had a fire break out on board, injuring crewmembers from smoke inhalation. They're still trying to settle those medical cases in and out of court.

But what a lot of people don't realize is just how close the Canadian Navy came to acquiring nuclear submarines in the late-1980s/early-1990s.

In order to go about this, the Canadian government wrote out a Statement of Requirement, or SOR. This spelled out their willingness to seek out and purchase up to six nuclear submarines from either Britain or France.

The US denied the Royal Navy an export license to sell their Trafalgar-class nuclear boats because they'd co-developed the reactor with the British, and could stop any sail of the technology under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Pact.

When that happened, the Canadian government approached the French government about buying up to six Rubis-class subs, with the option open to build up to four new Rubis-class boats IN Canada.

The Government, now faced with just one class left, inexplicably rewrote it's SOR. And this left an openning for the diesel-boat crowd. They pushed for what they felt was a "safer" option, and they ended up winning. It was something that would not have seemed possibly in the mid-1980s.

So...here's the question: What if the Canadian government hadn't issued that second SOR? What if the Canadian Navy had actually acquired SSNs in the early 1990s?
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Less money/surplus, Paul Martin isn't Prime Minister for the 20 or so minutes he was due to lack of spotlight, while someone else steps in to be the new Liberal leader when Jean leaves. Scandal breaks, depending on if it was OTL scandal or something different (which can be something faked/misreported, allowing liberal staying in power since OTL scandal is buried), then come next elections Conservatives get more, Liberals a bit less, New Democrats get louder but no extra voting power...

Wait, you were expecting something like "Russia fakes sub attack, starts war, Canada owns Eurasia by 2015"?
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Wait, you were expecting something like "Russia fakes sub attack, starts war, Canada owns Eurasia by 2015"?

God, I hope not. I don't think I can handle Canadawank. That doesn't even sound right.


And besides...that's a long ways away...and a lot of gas...and a lot of Russians...and I'm awful lazy...





But it just seems that when you look back over the history of Canadian military acquisition, if there's a way for SOMEONE...ANYONE...to mess it up, they'll do it. The SSNs, the Arrow, selling the Chinooks (though that gave them the surplus they've got now), the trucks they bought 20 years ago that were crap then (and are just replacing now), this whole deal lately with the Leopards. When they leave Afghanistan, they're going to have 3 different kinds of Leopards on 4 different continents.
And one thing that always seems to hit them from the beginning is this whole Charlie Brown-esque half-assedness. The two best acquistions they've made in the last thirty years have been the CF-18 Hornets and the new Medium trucks.

But the SSN program was completely different. For almost four years, until they rewrote what they wanted, the entire upper echelon of the Navy and the government was in lock step. It was only when they changed what they were asking for that it all faltered.
This was not something that the military was told by the government it had to make do with. This was something that both members of the military and government saw the use and helpfulness in having.
 
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Why the hell did Canada think they needed nuclear subs? Australia has done vey nicely with diesals (though there were teething problems for the current Collins class subs, they're considered the best of their type in the world) why would a country with far less maritime defence requirements need to go nuclear? And at the end of the Cold War?

Was this some Tory big dick obsession? Or did they want to be able to send these vessels through (under) the North West Passage anytime of the year?
 
The SSN's would have by far been the best choice. After all, if you look at the sub fleet right now, there are only 2 actual operation subs, with the Victoria being up in the graving dock(and its crew continually on TD out to the East Coast to train...while doing NO West Coast sailing whatsoever). The Upholders were one of MANY failures when it comes to Cdn. Naval Policy.
 
Why the hell did Canada think they needed nuclear subs? Australia has done vey nicely with diesals (though there were teething problems for the current Collins class subs, they're considered the best of their type in the world) why would a country with far less maritime defence requirements need to go nuclear? And at the end of the Cold War?

Was this some Tory big dick obsession? Or did they want to be able to send these vessels through (under) the North West Passage anytime of the year?
It was to allow them to operate under the Arctic ice, where they were worried about the threat to Canadian sovereignty posed by Soviet subs. The end of the Cold War is why they were cancelled.

They're talking about it again now with the arguments over the continental shelf claims under the Arctic.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
For those of you who may be thinking the whole idea was ASB in the beginning, I didn't pick those dates at random.
1990 was what the Canadian Navy and DND thought they could reach as of the situation in 1988. The original timeline, as I read in Through a Canadian Periscope by Julie Ferguson, was that the DND decided on SSNs and issued the 1st Statement of Requirement in 1986.
After the whole reactor issue with the Americans fell through, and the Trafalgars were placed off limits, the Canadian Navy was able to put forward a very serious timeline to have the first of six Rubis-class SSNs under a Canadian flag by 1990.
 
The RCN wanted a genuine under-ice capability to counter the increased threat posed by Soviet subs during the 1980s, hence the SSNs. Moreover, the RN *could not* allow them full access to the SSNs (due to NP reasons, as outlined), whereas the French could do so.

I could imagine them not being completed until post-Cold War if built in Canada. Mucho embarassment for the government involved due to bad timing.
 
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