Sports WI: Boston Red Sox scenarios

I was on ESPN in October, and someone had an article entitled "What if? Wondering what could have been". Someone had all these different "what if's" that had to deal with the Red Sox. I will post some of them. Take a stab at them if you want.

Here they are:

1. What if the Red Sox did not sell Babe Ruth for $125,000, plus a $300,000 loan?
2. What if the Red Sox had done the right thing and signed Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays when they had the chance?
3. What if Jim Lonborg did not take up skiing?
4. What if the Sox kept Sparky Lyle instead of trading him to the Yankees in 1972, thus helping the Yankees win two championships?
5. What if Jim Rice had not been hit by a pitch on September 22, 1975 and was healthy for the 1975 World Series? And instead his replacement Cecil Cooper went 1 for 19.
6. What if Bowie Kuhn did not void the purchase of Rollie Fingers and Joe Rudi from the A's in June of 1976?
7. What if the Red Sox had Cecil Cooper in 1978 instead of George Scott? Cooper was traded after the 1976 season for Bernie Carbo and George Scott and became a hitting star for the Brewers.
8. What if the Red Sox had not mailed Carlton Fisk's contract to him two days late, thus allowing him to become a free agent and sign with the White Sox in 1981?
9. What if Roger Clemens had not begged out of game 6 of the World Series in 1986 after 7 innings?
10. What if the Red Sox had accepted the Braves offer of a young Tom Glavine for Mike Greenwell?
11. What if the Red Sox had traded Scott Cooper instead of Jeff Bagwell for Jeff Andersen in 1990?
12. What if the free agent signing of Sammy Sosa, Kevin Appier, and John Wetteland in 1994?

And, here are some more:

13. What if the Red Sox had not traded Curt Schilling and Brady Anderson for Mike Boddicker in 1988?
14. What if Bernie Williams had accepted the Red Sox free agent offer?
15. What if Nomar Garciaparra had accepted the Red Sox offer of 4 years and 15 million per year?
16. What if Grady had pulled Pedro Martinez in game 7 of the ALCS in 2003?
17. What if the players union and Gene Orza had not intervened and allowed Alex Rodriguez to be traded to the Red Sox?
18. What if Tom Seaver's right knee was OK and was able to pitch in the 1986 playoffs instead of the ineffective Al Nipper?
19. What if the Sox had retained Orlando Cabrera instead of acquiring Edgar Renteria?
20. What if the Red Sox had kept Kelly Shoppach instead of trading him along with Marte to Cleveland for Crisp and Bard? They would not be worrying about the catcher position this offseason.
 
I was on ESPN in October, and someone had an article entitled "What if? Wondering what could have been". Someone had all these different "what if's" that had to deal with the Red Sox. I will post some of them. Take a stab at them if you want.

Here they are:

1. What if the Red Sox did not sell Babe Ruth for $125,000, plus a $300,000 loan?
2. What if the Red Sox had done the right thing and signed Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays when they had the chance?
3. What if Jim Lonborg did not take up skiing?
4. What if the Sox kept Sparky Lyle instead of trading him to the Yankees in 1972, thus helping the Yankees win two championships?
5. What if Jim Rice had not been hit by a pitch on September 22, 1975 and was healthy for the 1975 World Series? And instead his replacement Cecil Cooper went 1 for 19.
6. What if Bowie Kuhn did not void the purchase of Rollie Fingers and Joe Rudi from the A's in June of 1976?
7. What if the Red Sox had Cecil Cooper in 1978 instead of George Scott? Cooper was traded after the 1976 season for Bernie Carbo and George Scott and became a hitting star for the Brewers.
8. What if the Red Sox had not mailed Carlton Fisk's contract to him two days late, thus allowing him to become a free agent and sign with the White Sox in 1981?
9. What if Roger Clemens had not begged out of game 6 of the World Series in 1986 after 7 innings?
10. What if the Red Sox had accepted the Braves offer of a young Tom Glavine for Mike Greenwell?
11. What if the Red Sox had traded Scott Cooper instead of Jeff Bagwell for Jeff Andersen in 1990?
12. What if the free agent signing of Sammy Sosa, Kevin Appier, and John Wetteland in 1994?

And, here are some more:

13. What if the Red Sox had not traded Curt Schilling and Brady Anderson for Mike Boddicker in 1988?
...
18. What if Tom Seaver's right knee was OK and was able to pitch in the 1986 playoffs instead of the ineffective Al Nipper?

Sorry, I can't figure out how to multi-quote, I press the button, and press quote, and this same things comes up. So, the ones I can think of right away...

1. Discussed to death on www.baseba-fever.com at times, basically, the Sox might have seen Ruth decline by 1924 or so because of his riotous living, but also, they still would have had some severe problems becuase Ban Johnson had forbidden other teams from trading with the Red Sox. Anything up to and including jumping leagues is possible.

2. Willie is covered in "If Baseball Integrates Early," which I wrote; basically, he could set the single season home run and career records there. He'd take the pressure off Ted Williams some, as far as media attention, and probably be more beloved, but I don't know about the hat flying off and stuff as he ran down first base. All in all, though, this TL's version of Bill Russell as far as a beloved black star in Boston.
Where would jackie play, that's the problem, they were loaded offensively.

3. Hard to say, as pitchers get hurt arms easily anyway. Look at the Sox' top starters in the '46 World series, for instance.

4. You mean 2 pennants? He was pretty superfluous once they signed Goose before the '78 season. Look for a few more division titles for the Red Sox, but hard to say; they might have overused him, too. I can see a pennant in '72, maybe losing to the Reds and then winning the rematch in '75. (Home field being the big factor) I don't know, Baltimore might still overtake them in '74, they had very little pitching as it was. 1976 is still a Yankees year, I think, but '77 might be the Sox' year.

5. Wasn't Cooper faster, though? Rice might have grounded into a few double plays and actually hurt the team as much, it's hard to say. Were they facing more lefties or righties, I think Cooper was lefty, and I know Rice was a righty.

6. Where in the world where they going to play Rudi? He was a starter, he wouldn't have split time with anyone yet. I think they have to trade someone by the end of the offseason. As for Fingers, he probably helps them in '77 and '78 to division titles.

7. At least there's a place for Cooper here, at first base, with Yaz at DH. I think he's just good enough to get the Sox past New York in '78, not sure about '77, but they may well lose to the Royals, let alone the Dodgers. 1980 was his biggest year,but the Sox were bad. Could he be the different in the '82 pennant race? Nah, Baltimore probably overruns them; '81 I'm nto sure.

8. Might have given them a half division in 1981, he had a very good year. 1986 would be very interesting. What do they do withGedman waiting int he wings, though; trade him? He was a good one for a while.

9. Do you mean what if he doesn't get the blister or what if he keeps pitching with it. The former, the Mets might still scratch out a run. The latter, he might blow it himself, but I don't think it hurts his arm, the blister really just affected the grip. But, Clemens throwing a key wild pitch to tie it is interesting, too, before the extra inning comes.

10. I never heard about that one. Wow, but how well would he do in Fenway, with that close Green Monster? Of course, Atlanta was a good home run park, too.

11. Mo Vaughn has to play first, Bagwell's a little more versatile, they try him at third but he's not that good, same in left for a while. Either Vaughn or bagw4ell is traded before 1993, or Vaughn becomes the full-time DH. Bagwell might be decent in left at home, but it'd be hard with more range neded ont he road, I think.

12. They sign more after 1995, and the '96 Red Sox win the World Series over Atlanta like 2004 did, everyone moans about it not being a team of "real Boston home grown talent" like some did in 2004, Clemens is lauded like Wakefield was, people moan about how they didn't hold onto Wade Boggs. 1999 is this TL's version of 2007, though, as they start to have more home grown talent. Oh, and Nomar, in TTL, is the equivalent of Youkilis in OTL, besides Clemens and Vaughn the one bright, shining star that is home grown.

13. Schilling continues to fail to develop as he did for Baltimore and Houston, and he may well wind up with a totally different team; unless the Red Sox somehow learn to have patience with a young pitcher. Which, I suppose they could, but int he heat of a pennant race, it's hard.

18. Seaver starts game 3, Boyd game 4, in the World Series. Seaver loses a nailbiter to Ojeda 2-1 in Fenway (remember, Ojeda was great that day), boyd loses a disaster of a game 4 as OTL's game 3. The big kicker is that Seaver is not passed over to start game 7, and the extra day of rest really helps the hurler. He may only be able to go 7, but Bruce Hurst - who did toss 3 shutout innigns before getting worn down - is among those able to come nail thigns down with the Red Sox up 5-2 and the Mets threatening to add more in the bottom of the 8th. Red Sox win 5-3, with Bruce Hurst getting the save, and everyone in New York blames the rain for giving the Sox and Hurst one extra day of rest.

21. Now, would someone please tell me what they think happens if Wilson beats the runner to first in the 10th. Because that still puts runners only at 1st and 3rd with 2 down. Howard Johnson, then Lee Mazilli (if he walked) were up next.
 
Schilling

13. Schilling continues to fail to develop as he did for Baltimore and Houston, and he may well wind up with a totally different team; unless the Red Sox somehow learn to have patience with a young pitcher. Which, I suppose they could, but int he heat of a pennant race, it's hard.

Didn't Roger Clemens have a lot to do with Schilling turning his career around? I heard that Roger got on Curt on his conditioning and how he was conducting himself as a big-leaguer. Maybe he still would have became good in Boston eventually.

Sparky Lyle: I can see a pennant in '72, maybe losing to the Reds and then winning the rematch in '75. (Home field being the big factor) I don't know

I think that the A's would have taken the Sox in 72. They had the best team in baseball in those years. I heard that they were the underdog against the Reds because Reggie was out, but they took it to them. That was the year that the Pirates should have been there, not the Reds. They had them down, 3-2, in the bottom of the ninth, three outs away from their second straight WS. Then, their bullpen messed up. Giusti gave up a homer to Bench. They put Bob Moose in. He got two outs and looked good, but, then, with a guy on third, he threw an inexplicable wild pitch that brought home the winning run.
 
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Didn't Roger Clemens have a lot to do with Schilling turning his career around? I heard that Roger got on Curt on his conditioning and how he was conducting himself as a big-leaguer. Maybe he still would have became good in Boston eventually. .

Could be, I don't really recall the early history with Schilling. Then again, if the Sox are still in the heat of a pennant race in '88, they might trade him anyway.

Of course, i just realized that this butterflies away the Glenn Davis trade if they don't trade him, and also means the PHillies probably win about 88-90 games in 1993, and the Expos win the division. A Tornoto/Motnreal World Series? Interesting thought.

I think that the A's would have taken the Sox in 72. They had the best team in baseball in those years. I heard that they were the underdog against the Reds because Reggie was out, but they took it to them. That was the year that the Pirates should have been there, not the Reds. They had them down, 3-2, in the bottom of the ninth, three outs away from their second straight WS. Then, their bullpen messed up. Giusti gave up a homer to Bench. They put Bob Moose in. He got two outs and looked good, but, then, with a guy on third, he threw an inexplicable wild pitch that brought home the winning run.

I forgot about Reggie being lost to injury that year for the WS, your'e right. Of course, what kind of year did he have in '75; Lyle might not have done as well against the numerous righthanded bats of the Reds, either. So, they might lose that one, anyway. '77 seems like the best bet for the Sox to take the World Series, though that will still be a toughie. Or '78, if he can make them just a bit better than the Yankees were then.
 

Xen

Banned
13. Schilling continues to fail to develop as he did for Baltimore and Houston, and he may well wind up with a totally different team; unless the Red Sox somehow learn to have patience with a young pitcher. Which, I suppose they could, but int he heat of a pennant race, it's hard.

As an Orioles fan I wonder about this one myself, Schilling and Anderson didn't do much for the Orioles in 1989 when they went from last to two games out of the AL East Championship. Perhaps if they kept Boddicker he would have given them that second pitcher and the Orioles would have squeaked by the Blue Jays to become the fist team to go from worst to first in divisional play (something both the Twins and Braves would do two years later). The Orioles may or may not have been able to beat the Athletic's in the ALDS, but I like to think they could have, it was a solid Orioles team and they proved they were able to go toe to toe with the A's in regular season.

Hmm the World Series Quake would have been different, the 1989 Earthquake would still be seen by the nation as the game was played in San Francisco regardless of who won the AL. The Giants were swept so they may fare better against the O's than the A's, but an Oriole victory in 1989 would have meant alot to a team struggling to turn things around.
 
ESPN.com

Here is the article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3660176

It has 6 different "what if" scenarios, and there are comments sections for each one.

Two of the scenarios are for the Red Sox, like "what if Buckner fielded the ball cleanly", and "what if Little pulls Pedro".

Every team has "what if" scenarios, like the Cardinals(my team). The biggest for me are:

1. What if Denkinger correctly calls the guy out in 85?
The Cardinals win the game, and that butterflies away the supreme meltdown that happened in Game 7. As a result, Andujar stays and doesn't go to Oakland. The Cards fight the Mets longer in 86, but, they are playing so well, they pull away by Mid-September. In 87. The trade for Tony Pena(sending Van Slyke and LaValliere to the Steel City)isn't made. The Cards go back to the playoffs, but lose to the Giants in Game 6 after an Andujar meltdown. Minnesota beats the Giants in 7 for the 87 championship.

2. What if Ankiel doesn't meltdown in 00 and could handle the stress of being a big-league pitcher?
The Cardinals beat the Mets in six for the NLCS, then beat the Yankees in 6 for their first WS title in 18 years. The next year, led by Ankiel, the Cy Young winner, and Rookie of the Year Albert Pujols, they win it again, beating Oakland in the WS. They lose to the Giants in six in the 02 NLCS and fall off in 03 with injuries, but, they come back in 04 and lose to the Sox in 6, who are a team of destiny. They come back and win in 05 in 6 over the White Sox, and in 06 over the Tigers.

I also have a couple for the Pirates(my next-favorite team)

1. What if Bob Moose doesn't throw that wild pitch in the 72 NLCS?
Moose gets Hal McRae out on strikes to end the inning. He stays in to leadoff the 10th, and hits a perfect bunt that leads to a Pirate run later in the inning. The Reds match it in the bottom half of the inning. The teams stay tied, until Stargell hits a three-run shot in the top of the 12th, breaking a 4-4 tie. The Reds rally with two runs in the bottom of the 12th, but Cesar Geronimo pops up with two men on, and the Pirates go to the WS for the second straight year, where they beat Oakland.

2. What if the Pirates held on to win their game against the Phillies on Sept. 30th, 1978 when they hit a grand slam in the first inning and had a 4-0 lead?
The Pirates win that game, and then they complete the four-game sweep over Philly the next day to complete one of the best comebacks in pennant history. They finish 0.5 games ahead of the Phillies, and go on to meet the Dodgers in the NLCS. They get revenge for 1974, beating the Dodgers in five games, and play the Yankees in the WS. They lose in six games, and it motivates them for the next year. They come out like gangbusters in the first two months, slow down some, and then are in a great race with the Expos before pulling it out in late September. Just like in OTL, they beat the Reds and Orioles to win the WS.
 
Here is the article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3660176

It has 6 different "what if" scenarios, and there are comments sections for each one.

Two of the scenarios are for the Red Sox, like "what if Buckner fielded the ball cleanly", and "what if Little pulls Pedro".

Every team has "what if" scenarios, like the Cardinals(my team). The biggest for me are:

1. What if Denkinger correctly calls the guy out in 85?
The Cardinals win the game, and that butterflies away the supreme meltdown that happened in Game 7. As a result, Andujar stays and doesn't go to Oakland. The Cards fight the Mets longer in 86, but, they are playing so well, they pull away by Mid-September. In 87. The trade for Tony Pena(sending Van Slyke and LaValliere to the Steel City)isn't made. The Cards go back to the playoffs, but lose to the Giants in Game 6 after an Andujar meltdown. Minnesota beats the Giants in 7 for the 87 championship.

Thanks for the link, although is that what they say for that game? I'll have to check. It's probable, but by no means a certainty.

There were other things going on in that inning, including an error by Jack Clark on a foul pop; I ran a poll on www.baseball-fever.com some time back, about what would have hapened in that game if the ump doesn't blow the call. Of 17 respondents, 6 voted the Cards win 1-0, 4 that the Royals tie it but the Cards win in extra frames, 4 that the Royals tie it and then win in extra frames, and 3 that the Royals win 2-1 in the 9th, anyway. So, yes, the majority say the Cards win, but one can see the royals winning, too, if things fall right, if Clark makes the error and the pitcher comes unglued, etc.. I think there was a sac bunt involved, too, and if the batter swings away..well, lots of possibilities. (Even a pinch-hitter being used who wasn't in OTL.)

So, I'd label a Cardinal win as most plausible, but a Royal win is plausible, too. However, it would likely be in extra frames if they do win. The Cardinals could have come unglued some other way (just becuase they hadn't lost a lead all year doesn't mean they couldn't), or the Royals might just have sent up someone different. (Just checked - it was a failed bunt. So, if the batter swings on one of those pitches he tried to bunt on, it could easily be a hit.)

I also have a couple for the Pirates(my next-favorite team)

1. What if Bob Moose doesn't throw that wild pitch in the 72 NLCS?
Moose gets Hal McRae out on strikes to end the inning. He stays in to leadoff the 10th, and hits a perfect bunt that leads to a Pirate run later in the inning. The Reds match it in the bottom half of the inning. The teams stay tied, until Stargell hits a three-run shot in the top of the 12th, breaking a 4-4 tie. The Reds rally with two runs in the bottom of the 12th, but Cesar Geronimo pops up with two men on, and the Pirates go to the WS for the second straight year, where they beat Oakland.

I wonde rhow that affects the Reds in '73? Without the pennant win in '72, do they try harder to win the '73 pennant? Or, was overconfidence not a factor with the Reds in 1973's NLCS?

Your other Pirates one looks really good, too.
 
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