What if Michael Jordan was a success in Baseball and was called up to the majors?
Sports What Ifs.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
You have a good point about 1969, and 1970 may have been a title team for the Browns as well if Davis is there and if he was what he should have been. After that, he would have been entering his 10th season, and it is hard to say how his career would have gone from then.
This thread goes much further than that. If Davis can help the Browns win a few more games in 1962, it's possible Modell doesn't fire Paul Brown. If Brown gets to stay at least four or five more years, that butterflies away the Cincinnati Bengals. The question now becomes, "Who else would have been the AFL's 10th franchise?"
AFL Expansion
That's a good point. Seattle would have been a good candidate if U-Dub would let them play at Husky Stadium for 4-8 years while the city got their stadium issue squared away. The AFL wanted Paul Brown to put the expansion team they gave him in Seattle, but he wanted Cincy instead. Seattle would have gotten an AFL team in 1960, but U-Dub wouldn't let potential owner Willard Rhodes use their stadium. They may have by the mid-60's, though.
If not Seattle, maybe Memphis would have been looked at, or maybe they would have tried to put a team in Chicago or LA to get another big market filled. I heard that Sonny Werblin wanted the Broncos and Chiefs to move to Chicago and Anaheim, respectively, so that the AFL could get two bigger markets, but Lamar Hunt only had to pay a dollar for rent every year at Municipal Stadium, and the Broncos didn't want to move.
That's a good point. Seattle would have been a good candidate if U-Dub would let them play at Husky Stadium for 4-8 years while the city got their stadium issue squared away. The AFL wanted Paul Brown to put the expansion team they gave him in Seattle, but he wanted Cincy instead. Seattle would have gotten an AFL team in 1960, but U-Dub wouldn't let potential owner Willard Rhodes use their stadium. They may have by the mid-60's, though.
If not Seattle, maybe Memphis would have been looked at, or maybe they would have tried to put a team in Chicago or LA to get another big market filled. I heard that Sonny Werblin wanted the Broncos and Chiefs to move to Chicago and Anaheim, respectively, so that the AFL could get two bigger markets, but Lamar Hunt only had to pay a dollar for rent every year at Municipal Stadium, and the Broncos didn't want to move.
1979 NHL Draft...had the NHL changed it's draft rules sooner.
Gretz signed with the WHA because the NHL wouldn't allow under 20's to be drafted at the time.
What if the NHL had changed it's draft rules so that Gretz could be drafted at 18?
The Colorado Rockies (they're known as the Devils these days) had the #1 overall pick in the '79 Draft.
Obvious questions: Would they keep the pick and draft Gretz, going into debt to secure a phenom guaranteed to fill seats and recoup the debt in about a year?
Would they trade the pick? Toronto would probably be willing to pay a pretty penny to secure the Brantford native? Would a team like the Rangers make a play to put The Great One in MSG on the biggest pro sports stage in the world?
Further, what if the Leafs or Rangers do manage to get their hands on Gretz?
What could that potentially mean for The Leafs? Would they have won a Cup during Gretz's stay? Would they have been a one man show and ended up trading him away eventually?
What about the Rags, or more to the point, what would the impact of the biggest phenom to hit the game ever, playing in New York, have meant for the popularity of the game in the U.S.?
Would Gretz dominating the sports pages of the New York papers and segments across the New York media (and within their considerable reach) have caused a boom in hockey interest in the U.S.?
Gretz signed with the WHA because the NHL wouldn't allow under 20's to be drafted at the time.
What if the NHL had changed it's draft rules so that Gretz could be drafted at 18?
The Colorado Rockies (they're known as the Devils these days) had the #1 overall pick in the '79 Draft.
Obvious questions: Would they keep the pick and draft Gretz, going into debt to secure a phenom guaranteed to fill seats and recoup the debt in about a year?
Would they trade the pick? Toronto would probably be willing to pay a pretty penny to secure the Brantford native? Would a team like the Rangers make a play to put The Great One in MSG on the biggest pro sports stage in the world?
Further, what if the Leafs or Rangers do manage to get their hands on Gretz?
What could that potentially mean for The Leafs? Would they have won a Cup during Gretz's stay? Would they have been a one man show and ended up trading him away eventually?
What about the Rags, or more to the point, what would the impact of the biggest phenom to hit the game ever, playing in New York, have meant for the popularity of the game in the U.S.?
Would Gretz dominating the sports pages of the New York papers and segments across the New York media (and within their considerable reach) have caused a boom in hockey interest in the U.S.?
Gretzky
Gretz going to the Rockies would have been interesting. If they take him and keep him, they may have stayed in the Mile High City if he would have put enough butts in the seats.
As for building a team around him, I noticed that the Rockies/Devils traded away their #1 picks from 1980-83. They traded the #1 overall pick in the 80 draft to Montreal in 1976, but with Gretzky, maybe they keep the #1's from 1981-83, where they could have chose people like Grant Fuhr, Ron Francis, Ken Daneyko, Dave Andreychuk, Steve Yzerman, and Cam Neely in the first round, and players like Chris Chelios and Claude Lemieux in the second.
Also, here are some more questions:
1. With Gretzky and Lemieux both in American markets four years earlier, would there have been more pressure on John Ziegler to get a major American TV contract for the NHL in the mid-to-late 80's?
2. How would that have affected future expansion with the Rockies staying in Denver, and with Gretzky possibly staying in Denver?
Gretz going to the Rockies would have been interesting. If they take him and keep him, they may have stayed in the Mile High City if he would have put enough butts in the seats.
As for building a team around him, I noticed that the Rockies/Devils traded away their #1 picks from 1980-83. They traded the #1 overall pick in the 80 draft to Montreal in 1976, but with Gretzky, maybe they keep the #1's from 1981-83, where they could have chose people like Grant Fuhr, Ron Francis, Ken Daneyko, Dave Andreychuk, Steve Yzerman, and Cam Neely in the first round, and players like Chris Chelios and Claude Lemieux in the second.
Also, here are some more questions:
1. With Gretzky and Lemieux both in American markets four years earlier, would there have been more pressure on John Ziegler to get a major American TV contract for the NHL in the mid-to-late 80's?
2. How would that have affected future expansion with the Rockies staying in Denver, and with Gretzky possibly staying in Denver?
Think about this, Gretz in Denver has Wilf Paiement (or if they still make the trade with Toronto, Lanny McDonald, both in their prime, to pair with in '79-80 and '80-81, so they're probably doing better than they did OTL, thus picking deeper in the 1st round in 1981.
How much better?
With Gretz and a solid RW to feed (Paiement or McDonald certainly fit the bill) is easily worth over 100 goals of additional offense those Rockies teams didn't have OTL. That'll give them the win on many nights or at least a tie and a point on the other nights.
Even if, for the sake of argument, they still end up picking 3rd in 1981 and keep the pick, rather than trading the pick to the Caps, I think they still take Bobby Carpenter, and that's not a bad pick to center their two line. (Life long Whaler fan, Ronnie Franchise getting drafted by another team is a POD I refuse to entertain!
)Figure they're picking among the other playoff teams in '81, '82 and '83 (especially in a Smyth Division that's weaker than OTL) so anywhere from 6th (probably not) to 21st (depending on how hearty they feast on their Campbell Conference rivals...still, probably not. The powers out east would still out point them) figure more realistically, somewhere from 10-19 (at the highest and lowest possible with firepower like that) so from '81 to '83, in that range, best possible pieces to pick up...
Say, in '81, they're picking 9th on the high end, possibly as low as 15.
I say they take either James Patrick at 9 or Al MacInnis, at the low end 15 at the lowest.
That's some solid D to build on, and helps pretty quickly in the immediate future for them.
In '82, Andreychuk's the guy, unless they out point the Sabres and end up picking lower than 16. 16 is probably about as high as they'll be picking with Gretz Plus Sniper RW, so it's a possibility.
'83's tricky, because the back end of the 1st round is nowhere near as loaded as the front end.
They'd be better to trade the pick for a higher pick in round 2 and take Claude Lemieux there, then, with their second 2nd rounder, grab Peter Zezel.
As to the questions you raised...
If Gretz is in an American market, the pressure is on the NHL to get a major network deal (long term) by 1980 and Gretz in a U.S. city plus the Miracle on Ice team would be the perfect spark to land a HUGE major network deal, by the end of 1980.
I think Gretz and The Miracle are a perfect storm to get a major network deal done for the NHL in 1980, either an extension of whatever they already had, at more money or a new one, with a new network for more money.
Either way, I have to think they're getting a big deal even sooner than the mid-to-late 80's.
That's a little harder to say. Assuming population trends stay the same as OTL, you're still looking at a movement of population away from traditional hockey markets and into the American south and west.
However...with a powerhouse in Denver, I could see Seattle making a push for a team in the 80's, possibly getting the team Tampa was awarded. San Jose will still get a team, as the Gunds are still going to do what they did.
An interesting possibility is Salt Lake City.
Utah really started to experience both an economic and population boom by the early 90's. With a championship caliber team right next door in Colorado, a strong tradition of minor league hockey support and growing population and prosperity, they could make a serious play for one of those early 1990's expansion clubs, stealing the bids of either Anaheim or Miami.
Here's the thing, without an Oilers Dynasty, I think other Campbell/Western Conference teams compete for The Cup and keep up interest in their home markets, and I think Winnipeg, if they don't do something stupid, like the Hawerchuk deal (which I don't think the fans ever really forgave them for and it hurt them) and still take Tkachuk in 1990, along with Selanne from 1988, with Hawerchuk?
A little better drafting and trading, and without an Oiler Dynasty to compete with, I think the Jets would stay in Winnipeg.
Whether or not Dallas ends up with a team, either by the Stars moving (if they win a Cup at some point in the 1980's, I don't see them leaving) or via expansion, I can't say. It's a possibility, and a good risk, based on the numbers they put up in a distinctly non-traditional hockey market, so I like their chances.
Other than that...depends on if Gary Betteman still ends up commissioner.
If the guy who thought Hockey Night in Dixie and Hockey Night at The Oasis was a good idea STILL winds up commissioner, you'll still see the same moves made to the same markets in one form or another.
How they pan out in a U.S. that falls in love with hockey because of Gretz, on the other hand, is hard to say.
I think Gretz strengthens the existing U.S. markets, helps open up more cities in the "Hockey Belt" region of the country to viable franchise city status but making the Sun Belt any more receptive to hockey or not is hard to say. Maybe Gretz could do it, but remember, the Hurricanes won a Cup and people STILL don't show up for their games in the heart of NASCAR country, so I don't think even Gretz could make those places hockey hotbeds.
I think the bigger television deals and increased revenues could sure up the vulnerable teams in the league if an NFL style revenue share is instituted and more teams stay put (Quebec, Winnipeg, the North Stars and Hartford stay put, for example) and perhaps Seattle, Milwaukee and Salt Lake City get franchises.
The crystal ball gets murkier the farther ahead you try to look when you start factoring in all the butterflies from things like this, which makes it fun, but difficult.
There's some good potential for "what ifs" in Australian sports that can be rather far-reaching.. Especially if they erode the popularity of Australian Rules Football.
* What if the Superleague War never happens? In OTL the money wasted over the 2 competing rugby league competitions could instead have been used for a managed expansion of the league, including mergers and relocations of some Sydney teams.
* What if the National Soccer League had totally restructured itself in the mid-late 90sinto something resembling the first season of the current A-league? Only 1 team per city, no suburban clubs, and a small 6 or 8 team league for starters.
* What if Super Rugby had been set-up differently, and instead of using State teams, drawing the best 3 club teams from Australia? Along with that, the top 5 NZ provinces, and top 4 South African provinces from Currie Cup?
* What if Australian Rules Football had it's own rebel/breakaway competition? (would this have been feasible?) Say for instance if the AFL keeps knocking back Port Adelaide's expansion bid, and they enter negotiations with a Tasmanian consortium, a Freemantle syndicate, maybe some of the poorer Melbourne clubs to forge their own competition. is this even possible??
* What if the Superleague War never happens? In OTL the money wasted over the 2 competing rugby league competitions could instead have been used for a managed expansion of the league, including mergers and relocations of some Sydney teams.
* What if the National Soccer League had totally restructured itself in the mid-late 90sinto something resembling the first season of the current A-league? Only 1 team per city, no suburban clubs, and a small 6 or 8 team league for starters.
* What if Super Rugby had been set-up differently, and instead of using State teams, drawing the best 3 club teams from Australia? Along with that, the top 5 NZ provinces, and top 4 South African provinces from Currie Cup?
* What if Australian Rules Football had it's own rebel/breakaway competition? (would this have been feasible?) Say for instance if the AFL keeps knocking back Port Adelaide's expansion bid, and they enter negotiations with a Tasmanian consortium, a Freemantle syndicate, maybe some of the poorer Melbourne clubs to forge their own competition. is this even possible??
Rethinking this, if a breakaway AFL competition was to happen, it would probably have a mix of rich clubs that feel persecuted by the establishment (eg the Broncos and to a lesser extent the Warriors in the Superleague), clubs from the crowded Melbourne market that could do with a big payday (as per The Sharks & Penrith in Rugby League), and new expansion teams (Such as Superleague's short-lived Adelaide Rams)
Any takers for this?
Some others
What if Stirling Moss hadn't insisted on driving only for British teams?
What if Gilles had been less loyal to Ferrari & quit over the 312 being a dog, & wasn't killed at Zolder? (He reportedly hated the handling.)
What if BRM had actually built a competitive V16? (OK, ASB.)
What if the Repco had actually been a Buick factory engine, instead?
What if Jordan had actually signed Shumi in '91? Or had retained Rubino?
What if Jordan had cut a deal with M-B for engines, as well as for Schumi?
What if Fangio had started racing in the '20s or '30s?
What if Stuck hadn't gone to Hitler with a proposal for supporting Auto Union?
What if Coopers had gotten their hands on the prewar A-U Typ D, which spent WW2 in a colliery in Zwickau? Or if Coopers had hired Otto Seidan (chassis) & Walther Träger (engines)?
What if the Epperly rollerskate had caught on at Indy?
What if USAC hadn't decided to make turbines uncompetitive?
What if Bill France had never founded NASCAR?
And, for those of you who actually don't know what F1 is:
What if pro baseball began in Ontario in the 1830s? (Does this mean the Montreal Maroon Sox are a dynasty? Or at least people in Quebec actually watch baseball?)
What if the IOC actually abided by its own rules on prohibiting professionals & the "Dream Team" had been sent packing?
What if Stirling Moss hadn't insisted on driving only for British teams?
What if Gilles had been less loyal to Ferrari & quit over the 312 being a dog, & wasn't killed at Zolder? (He reportedly hated the handling.)
What if BRM had actually built a competitive V16? (OK, ASB.
)What if the Repco had actually been a Buick factory engine, instead?
What if Jordan had actually signed Shumi in '91? Or had retained Rubino?
What if Jordan had cut a deal with M-B for engines, as well as for Schumi?
What if Fangio had started racing in the '20s or '30s?
What if Stuck hadn't gone to Hitler with a proposal for supporting Auto Union?
What if Coopers had gotten their hands on the prewar A-U Typ D,
which spent WW2 in a colliery in Zwickau? Or if Coopers had hired Otto Seidan (chassis) & Walther Träger (engines)?What if the Epperly rollerskate had caught on at Indy?
What if USAC hadn't decided to make turbines uncompetitive?
What if Bill France had never founded NASCAR?
And, for those of you who actually don't know what F1 is:
What if pro baseball began in Ontario in the 1830s? (Does this mean the Montreal Maroon Sox
are a dynasty? Or at least people in Quebec actually watch baseball?)What if the IOC actually abided by its own rules on prohibiting professionals & the "Dream Team" had been sent packing?
Last edited:
Bulletsfromthegrassyknoll
Banned
Baseball, football, and basketball ones here:
What if the Dodgers and Giants stayed put in New York?
What if Derek Jeter was picked number 5 by the Reds in the 1992 draft, instead of #6 by the Yankees?
What if Michael Jordan never left to play baseball? Or what if his baseball career was a success?
What if the three pointer had never been introduced?
What if kicking in football had remained more vital to scoring than passing or running?
What if the AFL and NFL had never merged?
What if the Dodgers and Giants stayed put in New York?
What if Derek Jeter was picked number 5 by the Reds in the 1992 draft, instead of #6 by the Yankees?
What if Michael Jordan never left to play baseball? Or what if his baseball career was a success?
What if the three pointer had never been introduced?
What if kicking in football had remained more vital to scoring than passing or running?
What if the AFL and NFL had never merged?
Well, there's the possibility that both eventually go bankrupt.
The reason they merged was because college players were getting really expensive to sign. So if they never merged, chances are, one or both leagues would run out of money and fold.
And that makes room for more leagues to appear and make a start.
Maybe we see the USFL on ESPN.
Dennis Green
What if the Vikings don't come back to defeat the Giants in the 1997 Wild Card game?
I was watching something online about the Giants' worst moments since the 1987 strike, and they talked about how Dennis Green may have been fired if they would have lost that game.
If Green is fired, they may not have taken Randy Moss in the first round.
If they don't, who takes him? The Raiders? The Dolphins? or does he fall all the way to Denver at 32?
If that would have happened, I would have went crazy, and the Broncos might have won three or four in a row. Maybe Elway stays another year or two, and the short-lived Brian Griese era never happens.
What if the Vikings don't come back to defeat the Giants in the 1997 Wild Card game?
I was watching something online about the Giants' worst moments since the 1987 strike, and they talked about how Dennis Green may have been fired if they would have lost that game.
If Green is fired, they may not have taken Randy Moss in the first round.
If they don't, who takes him? The Raiders? The Dolphins? or does he fall all the way to Denver at 32?
If that would have happened, I would have went crazy, and the Broncos might have won three or four in a row. Maybe Elway stays another year or two, and the short-lived Brian Griese era never happens.
There's a distinct possibility that Moss makes Griese a better QB just by being on the field with him and giving him a pair of sure hands to throw to even when he's off and an ever present threat that leaves other receivers open as Moss is double covered, giving Griese less pressure throws to make per game.
Griese wasn't a terrible QB, he just wasn't what everybody thought he was going to be. A wide out like Moss might just be one of those things that makes him either better than he really was OR helps him build up enough confidence to become a solid starting QB in his own right.
Football what ifsa biased selection on the whole, but hey)
What if Queens Park turn professional in the 1880s?
What if the Home Nations enter the first World Cup?
What if the Munich air crash doesn't happen?
Likewise, what if the Torino team air crash doesn't happen?
What if Sheffield United sign the player they were after in 1978? (They signed Alex Sabella - they were trying to sign one Deigo Maradona)
What if Alfie Conn doesn't score for Dundee in 85, and Hearts hold on to win the title?
What if Eric Cantona signs for Sheffield Wednesday? (He had a trial)
Likewise, what if Cantona doesn't leave Leeds for Manchester United?
What if West Ham get a 6 point deduction for the Tevez affair in the original hearing?
a biased selection on the whole, but hey)What if Queens Park turn professional in the 1880s?
What if the Home Nations enter the first World Cup?
What if the Munich air crash doesn't happen?
Likewise, what if the Torino team air crash doesn't happen?
What if Sheffield United sign the player they were after in 1978? (They signed Alex Sabella - they were trying to sign one Deigo Maradona)
What if Alfie Conn doesn't score for Dundee in 85, and Hearts hold on to win the title?
What if Eric Cantona signs for Sheffield Wednesday? (He had a trial)
Likewise, what if Cantona doesn't leave Leeds for Manchester United?
What if West Ham get a 6 point deduction for the Tevez affair in the original hearing?
I can't believe that anyone thought that Griese would amount to that much, but I see your point. It just takes the right situation for some people to thrive. Brady and Montana are prime examples.
Another WI for Moss, though: What if he drops out of the first round to the Colts, who had the second pick in the second round that year? What if they decide to pair him with Peyton Manning? How many SB's do they win?
star
Banned
Games to desing the 5th to 8th place in FIFA Wolrd Cup?
2010 FIFA World Cup
seriously, games Ghana-Brazil and Argentina-Paraguay could be a great show also fill some space in TV trasmision, and add 1 more day of rest and training to the best for teams.
Uruguay-Germany for the 3rd place put 38.000 fans in a stadium to 42.000. Guess Brazil-Argentina could be a interesting match for the 5th place.
Currenly the WC is a 64 games tournament, we can get up to 67 and have a little extra fun, maybe 68 for the 7th.
In a world with at least 40 Football Nations, be the 5th is a honor.
Do you like to see game for the 5th in Brazil 2014?
2010 FIFA World Cup
seriously, games Ghana-Brazil and Argentina-Paraguay could be a great show also fill some space in TV trasmision, and add 1 more day of rest and training to the best for teams.
Uruguay-Germany for the 3rd place put 38.000 fans in a stadium to 42.000. Guess Brazil-Argentina could be a interesting match for the 5th place.
Currenly the WC is a 64 games tournament, we can get up to 67 and have a little extra fun, maybe 68 for the 7th.
In a world with at least 40 Football Nations, be the 5th is a honor.
Do you like to see game for the 5th in Brazil 2014?
Last edited:
star
Banned
2011-2012 sports without 2011–12 NBA season and 2011 NFL season
I dont know if somebody did it first but we need a thread
"2011-2012 sports without 2011–12 NBA season and 2011 NFL season"
I guess/wish a 1 year without NBA help to get up the around the world nationals leagues.
I dont know if somebody did it first but we need a thread
"2011-2012 sports without 2011–12 NBA season and 2011 NFL season"
I guess/wish a 1 year without NBA help to get up the around the world nationals leagues.
The Browns won four NFL titles (pre-Super Bowl) in 1950, '54, '55 and '64.
The Tribe has won 2 World Series (1920 and 1948) so, Cleveland has won championships...just not any since 1964.
To answer your question, big parade.
REALLY big parade.