Sports What Ifs.

I wonder too if in the 20s you’d see some smaller teams move to vacated markets. Have the Braves move to DC or Cleveland
...

Edit- forgot that the Athletics would not be asked to join the expanded NL. Granted Connie Mack and those owners left out might try to make a go of it but wouldn’t make it.

Cleveland had just won the World Series, and Connoe Mack was smart enough to try to get them to join him somewhere. Plus Walter Johnson was still a draw. But the biggest key may have been Baltimore and Mack's friend, Jack Dunn.

I can see the remaining A. L. Teams being brought in to replace 4 I. L. Teams, with Mack and Dunn working out a deal.
 
Where would Favre end up then, I wonder? 🤔

Apparently, he may have went to Tampa: https://thevikingage.com/2020/12/12/minnesota-vikings-brett-favre-tampa-bay-buccaneers/

Favre and Gruden were at GB in the early-90's, so it would make sense.

The Bucs collapsed that year just like Favre's team did in OTL (the Jets). They were 9-3 before losing their final four games. If Favre still gets hurt, that may still happen. If not, you may see Tampa make the playoffs for the third time in four years, saving Gruden's job, and delaying his MNF career. As for 09, the article indicates that Favre may have stayed there (butterflying away his Minnesota years).

As for the Vikings, they probably look elsewhere if Favre is secure in Tampa. Either they trade up for Sanchez, make a trade for Cutler (or maybe Brady Quinn since the Browns would get Sanchez) or draft Josh Freeman instead of Percy Harvin with the 22nd overall pick.
 
Cleveland had just won the World Series, and Connoe Mack was smart enough to try to get them to join him somewhere. Plus Walter Johnson was still a draw. But the biggest key may have been Baltimore and Mack's friend, Jack Dunn.

I can see the remaining A. L. Teams being brought in to replace 4 I. L. Teams, with Mack and Dunn working out a deal.
Yeah, looking at this now, I have a hard time seeing the left out AL teams just folding. I looked into the International league and I could see the left out AL teams joining and trying to make a new Major League. The hard part though would be that those clubs in smaller cities might want to find greener pastures in certain cities. I could see cities like Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Indianapolis and even Louisville being attractive markets that would be close enough in terms of train travel. Maybe you even have a three league circuit with the PCL representing the western United States. Granted 36 Major league teams would be a lot.

Also, this is more ASB but might they think of promotion and relegation? That might be interesting to see in baseball, though probably is too European though personally I like promotion and relegation and like the fact that theoretically any team in the system could advance to the top flight.
 
File this under the "learn something new every day" file:


Apparently, the Cardinals (who had the 10th and 17th picks in the first round of the 89 Draft) came close to trading them to the Lions for the third overall pick. Their target: Deion Sanders.
 
Here's a WI: WI the Houston Oilers manage to draft Bo Jackson with the #1 pick?

Here's my idea: looking over the Houston Oilers 1985 football season OTL, the Oilers had a 5-11 record (Here's a link: 1985 Houston Oilers season - Wikipedia)--but 3 of those wins (against the Miami Dolphins in Week 1, against the Kansas City Chiefs in Week 9, and against the San Diego Chargers in Week 12) were by 3 points or less. Putting those wins in the loss column gives Houston a 2-14 record, similar to the 1985 Tampa Bay Buccaneers--but gives the Oilers a 1-11 conference record against the Buccaneers' 2-10 record for that season, meaning that they get the #1 pick, which they would use to draft Jackson (the Oilers would probably see Jackson as the next Earl Campbell)...

IMO, Bud Adams won't ruin Bo's baseball eligibility with a plane ride, similar to what Hugh Culverhouse did...
 
Here's a WI: WI the Houston Oilers manage to draft Bo Jackson with the #1 pick?

Here's my idea: looking over the Houston Oilers 1985 football season OTL, the Oilers had a 5-11 record (Here's a link: 1985 Houston Oilers season - Wikipedia)--but 3 of those wins (against the Miami Dolphins in Week 1, against the Kansas City Chiefs in Week 9, and against the San Diego Chargers in Week 12) were by 3 points or less. Putting those wins in the loss column gives Houston a 2-14 record, similar to the 1985 Tampa Bay Buccaneers--but gives the Oilers a 1-11 conference record against the Buccaneers' 2-10 record for that season, meaning that they get the #1 pick, which they would use to draft Jackson (the Oilers would probably see Jackson as the next Earl Campbell)...

IMO, Bud Adams won't ruin Bo's baseball eligibility with a plane ride, similar to what Hugh Culverhouse did...
Not to mention (unless somebody has a better argument against it) that it could mean that the Astros could have the incentive of drafting him, making Bo a dual-sport sensation within the same city
 
Here's a WI: WI the Houston Oilers manage to draft Bo Jackson with the #1 pick?

Here's my idea: looking over the Houston Oilers 1985 football season OTL, the Oilers had a 5-11 record (Here's a link: 1985 Houston Oilers season - Wikipedia)--but 3 of those wins (against the Miami Dolphins in Week 1, against the Kansas City Chiefs in Week 9, and against the San Diego Chargers in Week 12) were by 3 points or less. Putting those wins in the loss column gives Houston a 2-14 record, similar to the 1985 Tampa Bay Buccaneers--but gives the Oilers a 1-11 conference record against the Buccaneers' 2-10 record for that season, meaning that they get the #1 pick, which they would use to draft Jackson (the Oilers would probably see Jackson as the next Earl Campbell)...

IMO, Bud Adams won't ruin Bo's baseball eligibility with a plane ride, similar to what Hugh Culverhouse did...

The Buccaneers and Falcons would have had the #2 and #3 picks, and probably end up taking Tony Casillas and Jon Hand. Then, the Colts would have gotten Jim Everett, who they wanted to get that year in the draft before the Oilers took him in OTL.
 
So we all know when the football gods cruelly decided to give the Jets hope in 09 and 10 season reaching back to back AFC championship games and then made them lose their last game of the season in 2011 to stop them from going to the playoffs. So I was thinking since both the Colts, Steelers and Patriots lost their SUPER BOWL games in 09-11 seasons. WI the Jets had gone to the big game thrice in a row and lost by the same score. First to the Saints, then narrowly the Packers and finally in a heartbreaking manner to their next-door neighbour's Giants.

How would this effect the Franchise in the early 2010's, would they go for broke and throw money in the free agency market to get over the hump?

Would Rex Ryan receive more coaching (Heck Jeff Fisher turned 1 yard into 16 more years as a coach)?
 
So we all know when the football gods cruelly decided to give the Jets hope in 09 and 10 season reaching back to back AFC championship games and then made them lose their last game of the season in 2011 to stop them from going to the playoffs. So I was thinking since both the Colts, Steelers and Patriots lost their SUPER BOWL games in 09-11 seasons. WI the Jets had gone to the big game thrice in a row and lost by the same score. First to the Saints, then narrowly the Packers and finally in a heartbreaking manner to their next-door neighbour's Giants.

How would this effect the Franchise in the early 2010's, would they go for broke and throw money in the free agency market to get over the hump?

Would Rex Ryan receive more coaching (Heck Jeff Fisher turned 1 yard into 16 more years as a coach)?

If the Jets make three SB's in a row, that probably means that the Giants don't make the playoffs because the Jets would have defeated them in Week 16 (either Dallas or the Eagles win the East). And, it would have required the Jets beating Miami in Week 17 as well (to finish 10-6).

Then, they would have had to beat the Texans, Pats, and probably the Ravens to advance to the Super Bowl. A tall order, but if they do, they are probably playing GB again or the 49ers.

Also, if this happens, Coughlin and Eli probably leave NY sooner if they still have the same track record after 2011 as in OTL. And, if the Eagles win the East, and win a playoff game, Andy Reid may not be out in 2012. If they somehow draft Russell Wilson, Reid may have been the one to lead Philly to the promised land.
 
Basketball What If

In the Secret Base Beef History for Barkley-Pippen, they mention Barkley was pushing for the Suns to trade for Pippen in the 94 offseason. Let's say this happens with AC Green, some bench players including an ancient Danny Ainge for the memes and some picks (probably including one of Phoenix's 95 1st rounders) going to Chicago for Pippen.

The Suns are a pretty formidable team with prime Barkley and Pippen and even with not much in the way of a supporting class for Barkley, they got 59 wins in 94-95. ITTL, I can see something between 60 and 65 being achievable which probably gets them the number one seed in the West. The Bulls here have a starting lineup of Anderson-Harper-Green-Kukoc-Wennington which lacks a superstar/leader and won't make the playoffs, with Milwaukee getting in instead.

The Suns breeze past Denver in Round 1 and get through the Lakers in the semis before coming up against the reigning champion Rockets in the WCF. I think this series goes to 7 games but I'm gonna give Houston the edge. The matchups on the eastern side of the bracket are a little different but the Finals still end either in a sweep or Rockets in 5.

This won't affect the MLB lockout so Jordan will still make his (first) comeback. However, I don't think he goes to the Bulls which will start rebuilding, shipping off any remaining three peat veterans such as Armstrong and Wennington. Instead, he will join his two closest friends in Phoenix.

The 1995-96 Phoenix Suns will be one of the greatest teams in NBA history (better than the 96 Bulls) and will certainly win over 70 games. They also win a ring, maybe without losing a single game but that would be hard. That level of success wouldn't be sustainable due to the personalities of their big three with Barkley inevitably falling out with at least one of (probably both) Pippen and Jordan. Depending on how well the Suns handle it, they lose anywhere from one to all of their Big Three.

Meanwhile in Chicago, they tank just in time for the 96 Draft. They probably aren't bad enough to get Iverson but, as they are in need of Guards, they should end up with at least one of Ray Allen, Kobe or Nash which will give them a solid building block and if Krause handles it well they could end up with some championships in the late 90s and early 2000s. Or not.
 
How do people think the Rams winning Super Bowl XXXVI would have impacted them and the Patriots? Could they have been well positioned to make it 3/4 in 2002?

i imagine the Brady-Belichick mythos doesn’t quite take off in the same way. Especially if it’s a heartbreaking loss, say a late pick on that last drive or the field goal missed only to lose OT on the 1st possession to the Greatest Show
 
Basketball What If

In the Secret Base Beef History for Barkley-Pippen, they mention Barkley was pushing for the Suns to trade for Pippen in the 94 offseason. Let's say this happens with AC Green, some bench players including an ancient Danny Ainge for the memes and some picks (probably including one of Phoenix's 95 1st rounders) going to Chicago for Pippen.

The Suns are a pretty formidable team with prime Barkley and Pippen and even with not much in the way of a supporting class for Barkley, they got 59 wins in 94-95. ITTL, I can see something between 60 and 65 being achievable which probably gets them the number one seed in the West. The Bulls here have a starting lineup of Anderson-Harper-Green-Kukoc-Wennington which lacks a superstar/leader and won't make the playoffs, with Milwaukee getting in instead.

The Suns breeze past Denver in Round 1 and get through the Lakers in the semis before coming up against the reigning champion Rockets in the WCF. I think this series goes to 7 games but I'm gonna give Houston the edge. The matchups on the eastern side of the bracket are a little different but the Finals still end either in a sweep or Rockets in 5.

This won't affect the MLB lockout so Jordan will still make his (first) comeback. However, I don't think he goes to the Bulls which will start rebuilding, shipping off any remaining three peat veterans such as Armstrong and Wennington. Instead, he will join his two closest friends in Phoenix.

The 1995-96 Phoenix Suns will be one of the greatest teams in NBA history (better than the 96 Bulls) and will certainly win over 70 games. They also win a ring, maybe without losing a single game but that would be hard. That level of success wouldn't be sustainable due to the personalities of their big three with Barkley inevitably falling out with at least one of (probably both) Pippen and Jordan. Depending on how well the Suns handle it, they lose anywhere from one to all of their Big Three.

Meanwhile in Chicago, they tank just in time for the 96 Draft. They probably aren't bad enough to get Iverson but, as they are in need of Guards, they should end up with at least one of Ray Allen, Kobe or Nash which will give them a solid building block and if Krause handles it well they could end up with some championships in the late 90s and early 2000s. Or not.

Also, this butterflies away the 2000-02 Flukers. Yeah!!

I heard that Phil Jackson wanted (in Jan. 1995) to see the three-peat team to be broken up to stay, and this happens. So, he probably stays in Chicago for several more years.

Also, maybe Shaq thinks twice before going to the Lakers (staying out of MJ's conference), and he re-ups with Orlando for seven years.
 
Also, this butterflies away the 2000-02 Flukers. Yeah!!

I heard that Phil Jackson wanted (in Jan. 1995) to see the three-peat team to be broken up to stay, and this happens. So, he probably stays in Chicago for several more years.

Also, maybe Shaq thinks twice before going to the Lakers (staying out of MJ's conference), and he re-ups with Orlando for seven years.

Or maybe he decides to sign with one of the best teams in the league which is in need of a Centre and we get Kobe and Shaq under Phil Jackson in Chicago. Maybe that's too similar to OTL.
 
Apparently, George Young almost replaced Bill Parcells with Howard Schnellenberger for the 1984 season:


The butterflies off of that could have been blinding:

1. Probably no SB titles in 1986 and 1990.
2. Parcells coached in college at one time before he ended up with the Giants as a LB coach. Maybe he goes back there.
3. Belichick and Ernie Adams probably don't stay with the Giants. In the documentary The Two Bills, I think that Belichick was ready to accept a job with the Vikings until Young decided to bring back Parcells. If he doesn't, Belichick has a totally different career (and Adams probably goes with them. They are buddies, and they work together).
 
So I just read this today on a wikipedia page. So apparently when Metropolitan Stadium in Minnesota (the stadium that preceded the Metrodome) was built, the idea was not only to attract baseball, but football. Obviously, they got the Senators to move and become the Twins, but I read that before the Vikings were created in 1961, the league was interested in having Violet Bidwill, the widow of Cards owner Charles Bidwill , move the team as Chicago was seen as too small for two nfl teams. For a few years the Cards did play two home games in Minnesota in 1959 and often had preseason games there, but eventually the team was moved to St. Louis, most likely due to her 2nd husband being from St. Louis.

So what if the Cards had ended up in Minnesota in St. Louis? Does St. Louis get a better team in 1961 and more football success? Do the Cardinals leave for Phoenix in 1982 if the Metrodome doesn't work out, or do they leave even later if US Bank stadium isn't built? Lastly, if the Cards are still terrible does the University of Minnesota somehow stay a football power or is their decline inevitable? Can't think of too many cities that have well supported college and NFL franchises except maybe Seattle and Miami when Marino was in town and the Hurricanes were rolling. Typically its either a college football town like Jacksonville, Atlanta, or Nashville (I kind of count LA too, as USC is well supported, but they also had no pro football for years, and UCLA isn't exactly a power)or the pros are much more beloved like in Minnesota, Colorado, Pittsburgh or the Bay area.
 
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Alternate Stanley Cup playoffs Winners, team compositions and Bracketts:

1953: Chicago Blackhawks over Boston Bruins in 6.

The Blackhawks beat the habs in game 2 4-3, before winning the next ones to win the series 4-1. They have the tools necessary to beat boston that year IMO.

1976 to 1979: the new york rangers don't trade Jean ratelle and brad park for Phil esposito,meaning that the rangers remain competitive for a bit longer before the 80s rebuild. Habs dynasty still happens.

1978 and 1980: Toronto Maple leafs

John Basset buys the Leafs insteqd of Harold Ballard. In turn, the Leafs keeps Bernard Parent, their scouting and coaching staff and thus becomes much more competitive from the 70s to the late 80s. Players like Daryl sittler, Lanny Mcdonald and Borje Salming stay leafs for much longer, until the eventual rebuild in the late 80s before becoming competitive again in the early 90s until Bassett's death. In turn, the leafs fare better as contenders in the modern age.

1975: Buffalo Sabres over Philadelphia flyers in 6 games.

The Sabres make the Gilles Meloche trade that almost happened IOTL. This means that the frnch connection wins a cup. Also motable is the pittsburgh penguins actually defeating the New York Islanders instead of blowing the lead. Mainly because Michel Brière doesn't die...which leads to:

1982: Vancouver Canucks defeat Quebec Nordiques in 5.

Pittsburgh actually beats the islanders in OT of game 5 (the first round was Best of 3 back then), which leads to Quebec beating them in 6. Vancouver thus wins the cup. They also keep Rick Vaive and other players, which makes their path to the cup easier.


1984: Quebec Nordiques beat Minnesota in 6 games.

So many PODs here:

-The rangers finish the job and upsets the isles in 5. Which means the isles only win 2 cups instead of 4 straight.
-Quebec beats montreal in game 3 before winning in 7 games in a hotly contested series that is seen as the peak of their rivalry. They would beat the ramgers in 5 games in the conference finals.
-Calgary Beats Edmonton in game 3, which leads to them winning in 6 games. They lose, however, against the minnesota north stars in 6 games in the conference finals.

1986 stanley cup: Hartford Whalers beat st louis blues in 7 games.

-Hartford stuns the habs in 7 Games, while st. Louis does the same to calgary. Mike Liut wins the conn smythe, while the likes of ron francis and ulf samuelsson doesn't get traded to pittsburgh in 1991.

1987: Philadelphia Flyers defeat Edmonton oilers in 6.

-Flyers win in OT in game 2, ehich leads to them having more confidence and close it out in 6. This also means that edmonton only wins 2 cups ITTL.
-Also, Quebec and Toronto makes the conference finals agaisnt the flyers and edmonton respectively.

1992: New york Rangers beat Winnipeg Jets in 6 games.

-New york shocks the world of hockey bemy beating pittsburgh in 5 games before winning the cup against an equally surprising Winnipeg Jets team in the finals. With his cup win in new york and in toronto, roger neilson is considered an iconic coach, and he stays in new york for much of the 90s.

1993: Montreal over toronto in 6 Games.

Kerry Fraser actually calls gretzky's high stick on gilmour, which leads to a dramatic goal from wendel clark. This leads to canada's wet dream: the 100th stanley cup final featuring the two original NHL franchises. The finals is the highest rated sports event in canadian television history. Oh, and Toronto doesn't make that godawful tom kurvers trade, meaning they get Eric Lindros. Quebec still gets something, though: Scott Niedermayer.

1994: New York Rangers over Vancouver canucks in 7 games.

The difference here is that The rangers keep both roger neilson and their youngsters such as doug weight, tony amonte, Mark Tinordi and darren turcotte, while they still acquire stephane matteau, only earlier in 1991 in a similar deal to the calgary trade IRL. Combine with keeping sergei zubov, todd marchant, Alex Kovalev, Mike Knuble, Kim johnsson and Matthais Norstrom As well as signing pavel bure in 1998, as such, they remain top contenders for much of the 90s and early 00s.

1995: Philadelphia Flyers over detroit red wings in 6 games.

-Since Quebec doesn't get lindros ITTL, That means that they keep talent like peter forsberg, Steve duchesne, Mike Ricci and chris simon. Since they still make the trades for Rod Brind'amour, Eric Desjardins and Peter Svoboda, this means that Philly is a really deep team, and peter forsberg becomes an overnight sensation, winning both the calder and the stanley cup in his first season, while the legion of doom he forms with Leclair and Mikael Renberg is the envy of the league.

2000: Philadelphia over Dallas in 6 games.

Philly actually acquires raymond bourque, and he brings some much needed leadership and veteran presence. That, combined with prime forsberg, allows the flyers to actually sweep the devils and win the cup.

2001: Colorado Avalanche over pittsburgh Penguins in 7 games.

2002: Detroit red wings over Toronto Maple leafs in 5 games.

-Montreal actually gets to the conference finals.

2003: Calgary Flames over Ottawa Senators in 7 games.

-The flames keep martin st. Louis, Valeri Bure, Cory stillman, marc savard and jean-sebastien Giguere. They also still acquire chris drury. Giguere wins the conn smythe, and calgary repeats the following year.

2004-2005: Ottawa senators over Vancouver Canucks in 5 games.

-The CBA negotations goes much more smoothly, and there is a 2004-2005 season, with the new rules being effective as of 2005-2006. With dominik hasek in goal and the deepest team in the league, ottawa easily beats the west coast express canucks in 5.

2006 stanley cup: edmonton wins.

2007: Buffalo Sabres. Briere and co. Deserves a cup.

2010: Chicago Blackhawks over montreal canadiens in 5 games.

2011: Vancouver canucks over montreal canadiens in 7 games.

2013: Chicago Blackhawks over toronto maple leafs.

2014: Montreal over los angeles in 7 games.

-Chris kreider gets drafted by montreal, and the habs never trade ryan mcdonaugh.

2017: Ottawa over Nashville in 6 games.

-chara stays, and the taylor hall for cody ceci deal actually happens...yes, you read that right.
 
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