Sports What Ifs.

[AltSptHst]

Dennis Rodman was drafted by the Detroit Pistons with the 27th pick in the 1986 NBA Draft. What if he’d been drafted...

• 12th by the Washington Bullets (who took John Williams)?
• 14th by the Portland Trail Blazers (who took Walter Berry, who never played a game for the Blazers and eventually got traded to the San Antonio Spurs)?
• 18th by the Denver Nuggets (who took Mark Alarie)?
• 23rd by the Los Angeles Lakers (who took Ken Barlow, who never ended up playing in a single NBA game)?

Bullets: Maybe they get a round further in the 88 playoffs (in OTL, they took the Pistons to five games in the first round before losing), but they become irrelevant after that. I wonder if he becomes as famous as he did not playing on a World Championship Piston team.

Nuggets: They had two picks in the 1986 first round (16th and 18th). They could have had Rodman and Mark Price. If they take those guys, they probably get to the 1988 WCF (they won the 1988 Midwest Division title in OTL, and lost to Dallas in six games) and give the Lakers a run for their money. They may also win the Midwest in 89 as well, and maybe the team isn't blown up after the 1990 season.

Blazers: If they take Rodman instead of Walter Berry, and he makes an impact, they probably win the Finals in 1990, and in 91 more than likely. After that, it is hard to say because the team started to age, and the Bulls were hungry and ready to win.

Lakers: They probably three-peat to end the 80's, and they may win in 90 and 91 as well if Pat Riley doesn't push them too hard in this reality (that led him to leave the team and end up with the Knicks). The Magic HIV announcement still would have happened, though, and who knows if Rodman stays much longer after that because people may get traded not too long after that (in early 92, Worthy and Elden Campbell were almost traded for Charles Barkley).

 

[AltSptHst]

I think KC still gets a football team but maybe not until 1966 when the nfl expands and they get a team along with Atlanta. Otherwise they might have to wait until the AFL expands , butterflying either the Dolphins or Bengals. Otherwise they won’t get a team until 1976 but I don’t see them waiting that long.

Here's how those late-60's NFL and AFL expansions may go if the Dallas Texans move to New Orleans:

NFL: Atlanta still gets in to start the 1966 season. As for NO's spot, I think that Cincinnati would have taken their place. Paul Brown wanted to be in the NFL, not the AFL.
AFL: Miami still gets in for 66, but I don't think that KC is the main choice for the 1968 expansion team. Maybe they try again in LA (Sonny Werblin recommended that one of the teams move to LA in the mid-60's), or they look at Seattle again (in 1960, Willard Rhodes wanted to bring Seattle into the AFL, but the U-Dub wouldn't let the team use Husky Stadium. However, by 1966-67, the AFL was more established and successful, and U-Dub probably would have let them use their stadium while the city tried to get a major-league quality stadium built for the NFL and MLB).

For the AFL, my guess is that they go to Seattle for the 68 season. They tried to encourage Paul Brown to have his team there, but he chose Cincinnati instead. That moves KC's expansion timeline back to 1974, when the NFL awarded the two teams in OTL (to Seattle and Tampa Bay).

Also you’re right about the Raiders. Lots of butterflies. I think Davis might end up finding a way up in the Chargers organization or being he was kind of a huckster, exaggerating his football prowess, he finds a way to make some waves in pro football though maybe not as big as otl. As for Madden, he might end up being a college coach, probably in California. He might end up working his way up, maybe even coaching for a WAC or PAC 10 school if he’s successful enough.

Good point about Davis. Also, maybe Madden comes out with a college football game instead of a pro one.

One thing that may have been affected by no Raiders in Oakland: The NHL's California Golden Seals.

In 1970, Roller Derby magnate Jerry Seltzer tried to buy the team, but the NHL owners didn't like that Raider partner Wayne Valley would also be involved, so they gave the team to Charlie O'Finley (a colossal mistake) because they wanted to only deal with one guy (it's sad, because he had a plan to turn the franchise around). If the Raiders don't exist, maybe Seltzer is alone, and has a way better shot of acquiring the team.

With Seltzer as owner, a certain GM probably stays instead of quitting. His name: Bill Torrey, the man who built the Islander dynasty. Maybe we see a Bay Area hockey dynasty instead in the 80's, and if the 49ers are still the same, SF becomes the City of Champions.

 

[brunohusker]

One thing that may have been affected by no Raiders in Oakland: The NHL's California Golden Seals.

In 1970, Roller Derby magnate Jerry Seltzer tried to buy the team, but the NHL owners didn't like that Raider partner Wayne Valley would also be involved, so they gave the team to Charlie O'Finley (a colossal mistake) because they wanted to only deal with one guy (it's sad, because he had a plan to turn the franchise around). If the Raiders don't exist, maybe Seltzer is alone, and has a way better shot of acquiring the team.

With Seltzer as owner, a certain GM probably stays instead of quitting. His name: Bill Torrey, the man who built the Islander dynasty. Maybe we see a Bay Area hockey dynasty instead in the 80's, and if the 49ers are still the same, SF becomes the City of Champions.

You mention Charlie O. Finley and the Athletics, but would they even move to Oakland if the Raiders were not there? They wouldn't have a stadium unless Oakland really wanted one. I thought I heard somewhere that the Athletics almost left Kansas City for either Dallas, Atlanta, or Louisville. So if they were to move to say Dallas in 1966 and the Braves still moving to Milwaukee, you might end up with a quite different MLB situation. Like lets say in 1969 you get expansion to Kansas City, Seattle (the Pilots still move to to Milwaukee in 1970) San Diego and Montreal. Maybe you then end up with the Senators moving to Oakland or another east bay city by 1971 or so if they still are interested, but by that point a team like the Senators might want to try Miami or Seattle. You might not even see another Bay Area MLB team until 1994 or so and by then a city like San Jose or Sacramento could argue they should get the team.

 

[mrcubfan415]

I thought I heard somewhere that the Athletics almost left Kansas City for either Dallas, Atlanta, or Louisville.

Yeah, it’s mentioned in the SportsLogos thread that was mentioned in post #3,274.

 

[mrcubfan415]

Most likely, if the Bennet group hadn't got The Sonics, they would've tried elsewhere (New Orleans? Memphis?).

Maybe Memphis? The Grizzlies were coming off two straight 22-60 seasons, IIRC.

 

[mrcubfan415]

If the Pats would have won over Seattle on September 20, 1992, history would have been different:

One fateful play: Interception meant Pats, not Hawks, drafted Bledsoe

Hugh Millen threw to Irving Fryar in the end zone, but Seahawks cornerback Patrick Hunter...

www.seattlepi.com

The 1-15 Seahawks would have had the #1 pick in the 93 draft, and they would have taken Bledsoe. Then, with the #2 pick, there may have been drama. I now know that the 49ers were desperate to trade up to get Mirer. Since the Pats can't get Bledsoe, maybe they decide to take Steve Young for the #2 pick, allowing the 49ers to draft who Bill Walsh referred to as the next Montana.

Speaking of Montana, he retires after leading SF to their fifth SB win at the end of the 94 season, opening the door for the Mirer era to commence.

The big question is: What happens to Tom Brady with Bledsoe in Seattle?

 

[kinnikuniverse]

The big question is: What happens to Tom Brady with Bledsoe in Seattle?

Nothing different. Remember, Brady was selected very very late in the 2000 draft. If Palpatine still goes to new england, nothing much would change, TBH.

 

[Nivek]

The big question is: What happens to Tom Brady with Bledsoe in Seattle?

Nothing different. Remember, Brady was selected very very late in the 2000 draft. If Palpatine still goes to new england, nothing much would change, TBH.

Depends, Brady was both a talent evaluator and BB liked him enough to take it very late when was a zero risk pick, if BB come, his staff come..again depends. Would pats be on the hunt another QB them? if they got a Peyton, Leaf, Brunell, or Mcnabb/Couch/Culppepper...Brady would become tradeable bait them...

 

[kinnikuniverse]

Depends, Brady was both a talent evaluator and BB liked him enough to take it very late when was a zero risk pick, if BB come, his staff come..again depends. Would pats be on the hunt another QB them? if they got a Peyton, Leaf, Brunell, or Mcnabb/Couch/Culppepper...Brady would become tradeable bait them...

Maybe...but what i had in mind is the previusly-mentioned scenario where bledsoe gets drafted by seattle AND The pats trade for steve young. With young potentially leading the pats to upset the packers in 1996 and maybe have a few more years of being good, but not great, i doubt that they would acquire those quality QBs...granted i say that because i dunno where mcnabb and culpepper were picked in their respective draft,so i might be wrong here.

 

[Nivek]

oubt that they would acquire those quality QBs...granted i say that because i dunno where mcnabb and culpepper were picked in their respective draft,so i might be wrong here.

If they get Young..better get brady or even Bress, as the best closer QB for them might be 2004 and might have some gap years as contenders, Remember young was an OLD QB and his running style make him prone to Concussion, those might come, at best could get brady 2000 or might have to use someone else...

I thought Pats would Suck without bledsoe so thought would be on the tank race for Peyton/Leaf or later took someone from the 1999 QB class.

 

[kinnikuniverse]

If they get Young..better get brady or even Bress, as the best closer QB for them might be 2004 and might have some gap years as contenders, Remember young was an OLD QB and his running style make him prone to Concussion, those might come, at best could get brady 2000 or might have to use someone else...

I thought Pats would Suck without bledsoe so thought would be on the tank race for Peyton/Leaf or later took someone from the 1999 QB class.

Speaking of bledsoe, how would he and the seahawks fare in the 90s and early 00s? I know that they would be contenders, but i didn't watch the NFL when i was a kid, so can somebody tell me how good the seahawks were in the 90s?

 

[Nivek]

Speaking of bledsoe, how would he and the seahawks fare in the 90s and early 00s? I know that they would be contenders, but i didn't watch the NFL when i was a kid, so can somebody tell me how good the seahawks were in the 90s?

Seahawks paid the prize of choosing Mcgwire bro over Favre..and they liked Favre too. And Later Mirier was a dud..so they where terrible because lack a competent QB. And they where on the crowed AFC too...BUT if they got Bledsoe, maybe Paul allen could buy them early? regardless when Allen get them... With Bledsoe they could do some Noise on playoffs in 95 onward as they got very pedestrian .500 season with bledsoe could goes over the edge... Holmgren and Allen where Seahawks saviors to begin with too.

 

[brunohusker]

Good point about Davis. Also, maybe Madden comes out with a college football game instead of a pro one.

I think if Madden got on the right track he could if successful. He was an assistant at San Diego State before he went to the Raiders. Maybe instead he gets a job at a smaller California school like Cal St Fullerton or Long Beach or even Fresno or San Jose State and does well enough he gets a PAC 10 job. Might even bring a team like Cal back to prominence or lands at USC after John McKay leaves to coach in the pros.

 

[Nivek]

I think if Madden got on the right track he could if successful. He was an assistant at San Diego State before he went to the Raiders. Maybe instead he gets a job at a smaller California school like Cal St Fullerton or Long Beach or even Fresno or San Jose State and does well enough he gets a PAC 10 job. Might even bring a team like Cal back to prominence or lands at USC after John McKay leaves to coach in the pros.

Why nobody pushed the obvious..Revived Oakland Team with Davis and Madden

 

[AltSptHst]

I think if Madden got on the right track he could if successful. He was an assistant at San Diego State before he went to the Raiders. Maybe instead he gets a job at a smaller California school like Cal St Fullerton or Long Beach or even Fresno or San Jose State and does well enough he gets a PAC 10 job. Might even bring a team like Cal back to prominence or lands at USC after John McKay leaves to coach in the pros.

Here's the thing, though: Madden seemed like a larger than life character, but was he Al Davis's puppet to some degree? We don't know how good of a HC he could have been without Davis because we never got to see him on another team.

 

[AltSptHst]

This scenario is inspired by this video:

The Hockey Guy basically indicated that the WHA would have been in trouble if they didn't sign Hull. It probably folds within a year, which would have changed the course of professional hockey in a big way.

There wouldn't be as many Canadian teams as there are today, and it may have affected the existence of the Capitals and Devils (I think that 1974 expansion was a reaction to what the WHA was doing). Also, where does Gretzky end up in 1979 without a WHA?

 

[brunohusker]

Here's the thing, though: Madden seemed like a larger than life character, but was he Al Davis's puppet to some degree? We don't know how good of a HC he could have been without Davis because we never got to see him on another team.

True. He kind of got lucky. Sure the best case scenario might be that he coaches in the PAC 10 but he might just end up being an assistant and while respected, not known outside of certain circles.

 

[AltSptHst]

I was on baseballfever.com, and I found a thread about a possible AL-NL merger that almost took place in 1921. According to Wikipedia, this is what happened:

Major League Baseball narrowly averted radical reorganization in November, 1920. Dissatisfied with American League President and National Commission head Ban Johnson, NL owners dissolved the league on November 8 during heated talks on MLB reorganization in the wake of the Black Sox Scandal. Simultaneously, three AL teams also hostile to Johnson (Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox, and New York Yankees) withdrew from the AL and joined the eight NL teams in forming a new National League; the 12th team would be whichever of the remaining five AL teams loyal to Johnson first chose to join; if none did so an expansion team would have been placed in Detroit, by far the largest one-team city at that time. Four days later, on November 12, both sides met (without Johnson) and agreed to restore the two leagues and replace the ineffective National Commission with a one-man Commissioner in the person of federal Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis.

So, what if the dispute wasn't resolved, and the two leagues actually merged? What would have happened to the World Series? How would the league be affected by the Great Depression, etc....

 

[brunohusker]

I was on baseballfever.com, and I found a thread about a possible AL-NL merger that almost took place in 1921. According to Wikipedia, this is what happened:

Major League Baseball narrowly averted radical reorganization in November, 1920. Dissatisfied with American League President and National Commission head Ban Johnson, NL owners dissolved the league on November 8 during heated talks on MLB reorganization in the wake of the Black Sox Scandal. Simultaneously, three AL teams also hostile to Johnson (Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox, and New York Yankees) withdrew from the AL and joined the eight NL teams in forming a new National League; the 12th team would be whichever of the remaining five AL teams loyal to Johnson first chose to join; if none did so an expansion team would have been placed in Detroit, by far the largest one-team city at that time. Four days later, on November 12, both sides met (without Johnson) and agreed to restore the two leagues and replace the ineffective National Commission with a one-man Commissioner in the person of federal Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis.

So, what if the dispute wasn't resolved, and the two leagues actually merged? What would have happened to the World Series? How would the league be affected by the Great Depression, etc....

I’ve wondered about this myself. If there are 12 teams in 1921, I’m guessing you see expansion by 1925 though that might be too difficult as baseball didnt even expand until 1961.
Another idea might be that you simply have 12 teams until after World War Two when another league is founded. You might even have the PCL be moved up to a major league.

 

[Nivek]

True. He kind of got lucky. Sure the best case scenario might be that he coaches in the PAC 10 but he might just end up being an assistant and while respected, not known outside of certain circles.

Nah madden was pure talent but seems winning as he got make him wanted too move greener pastures..and Al wanted an amicable separation too