Sports What Ifs.

There was a lot of smoke in 2017 around Payton's interest in Mahomes, enough to compel Andy Reid to trade up.

Speaking of which, what happens if Reid doesn't trade up and Payton does take Mahomes? If Mahomes becomes the starter after one year like he did in KC, where does Brees end up?
A long way down I-10? (Arizona).
 
Here's a WI: WI no Music City Miracle by the Titans in the 1999-2000 NFL playoffs? Remember, the Jacksonville Jaguars that year were 14-2 in the regular season...and both of those losses came against the Tennessee Titans, who beat them in the AFC title game that year to go on to the Super Bowl.

The Jaguars reaching a Super Bowl five seasons after they started would be pretty damn impressive, IMO. Now, it's another matter whether they beat The Greatest Show On Turf (aka the St. Louis Rams)...
 
The Jaguars reaching a Super Bowl five seasons after they started would be pretty damn impressive, IMO. Now, it's another matter whether they beat The Greatest Show On Turf (aka the St. Louis Rams)...
let's say the end up the yard short..would fisher end up fired early?
 
What if the 49ers took rodgers with the #1 pick? how far would alex smith fall?
Right off the bat, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers could use a new face at QB with the 5th overall pick, being solid enough to go over Griese and McCown. Should Gruden pass, the QB-searching Redskins could consider him needed enough to pass on CB Carlos Rodgers and take him there. Much as it would probably help him in the long term, the idea of Smith being the Green Bay QB would be too unlikely IMHO without some form of a trade and the Chiefs, while potentially getting him sooner, don't look like they're going to choose him over LB Derrick Johnson. If I could find the absolute lowest, realistic or not, there COULD be Smith joining the Minnesota Vikings at #18, but even then that would depend on a host of factors.
 
Right off the bat, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers could use a new face at QB with the 5th overall pick, being solid enough to go over Griese and McCown. Should Gruden pass, the QB-searching Redskins could consider him needed enough to pass on CB Carlos Rodgers and take him there. Much as it would probably help him in the long term, the idea of Smith being the Green Bay QB would be too unlikely IMHO without some form of a trade and the Chiefs, while potentially getting him sooner, don't look like they're going to choose him over LB Derrick Johnson. If I could find the absolute lowest, realistic or not, there COULD be Smith joining the Minnesota Vikings at #18, but even then that would depend on a host of factors.
According to Walter Football's archives, Cleveland (picking third overall) had Alex Smith rated ahead of Braylon Edwards. So, it looks like Smith would have went to the Factory of Sadness in this world.

As for the next couple picks, I see four through six staying the same (Benson to Chicago, Cadillac to Tampa, Pac Man to Tennessee). At seven, though, the Vikes would have to take Braylon Edwards over Dropamson since he falls in their lap.
 
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According to Walter Football's archives, Cleveland (picking third overall) had Alex Smith rated ahead of Braylon Edwards. So, it looks like Smith would have went to the Factory of Sadness in this world.
If Smith can be given the pieces and get some support, this could put the Browns in the playoffs in 2007, if Crennel plays it right.
 
If Smith can be given the pieces and get some support, this could put the Browns in the playoffs in 2007, if Crennel plays it right.
That is the year they got Joe Thomas, helping smith a lot too, Yeah that is the do or die and i can see Alex pulling it, would be amazing
 
If Marcus Dupree (the subject of the 30 for 30 episode The Best That Never Was) stayed all four years in college (either by going to Texas or transferring to So. Miss), and if Keith Byars didn't have a foot injury in 1985, Bo, Marcus, and Byars would have been top-5 picks at least, and maybe the first three.

Since Bo didn't want to play for Tampa, maybe they take Marcus Dupree, leaving Bo for the Falcons. Then, there is a chance that the Oilers (who did take power back Alonzo Highsmith a year later) take Byars at 3.

Since Bo and Dupree are drafted by the Falcons and Bucs, I can see Gerald Riggs and James Wilder being traded (maybe Denver trades for one of them). Then, since Jim Everett isn't drafted by the Oilers, maybe he falls to the Lions at pick 12 (who drafted Chuck Long in OTL). I wonder how he would have done with the Run and Shoot.
 
I'm trying to think of a good Saints build scenario and, looking at an older page about QBs, an idea came to me (mostly spitballing):

WI the Saints traded Guy Benjamin for Steve DeBerg and the Niners later traded Benjamin to the Broncos for that 4th rounder?
 
I'm trying to think of a good Saints build scenario and, looking at an older page about QBs, an idea came to me (mostly spitballing):

WI the Saints traded Guy Benjamin for Steve DeBerg and the Niners later traded Benjamin to the Broncos for that 4th rounder?
This is a good one. If DeBerg goes to NO, I think he can be the guy there. He was a better QB than the guys the Saints had in the 80's (Richard Todd, Bobby Hebert, Dave Wilson, and the 80's version of Ken Stabler, who was an INT machine).

Here is a good four-part series on Guy Benjamin (link to part one. Links to other three parts are after part 1. Guy Benjamin made a comment on one of these entries):


Benjamin was drafted by the Dolphins in 1978. The vets on the team didn't like him. They were very protective of the other vets, and they didn't want a "Stanford Hippie" replacing long-time QB Bob Griese.

Two years later, he was traded to NO. However, Dick Nolan and the interim coach didn't play him. The next year, Benjamin asked Bum Phillips for a trade, and he sent him to SF, where he backed up Montana for a few years before retiring.

If Benjamin goes to Denver, he probably gets a chance to play his first two years, especially in 1982. The QB's they had were a 38-year old Craig Morton and a young Mark Herrmann (who Reeves was high on). If Benjamin impresses, maybe he is the one who goes to the Colts in 1983 in the Elway trade, and maybe starts for them for a few years or so.
 
I'm more of a college fan and I've brought this up before, but what if Notre Dame had become the 12th member of the Big Ten in 99? I don't know what dominoes would fall but for sure the Pac 10 would want to expand sooner or later but Utah wouldn't get good until 2005, so I don't know who they would get to join with Colorado. Also, if Colorado leaves teh Big 12 who do they get to replace them? I used to think BYU as the Big 12 already has Baylor as a religious school but that might be too much to work around as BYU doesn't play on sundays (though Baylor does in spite of being a large Baptist school.)
 
I'm more of a college fan and I've brought this up before, but what if Notre Dame had become the 12th member of the Big Ten in 99? I don't know what dominoes would fall but for sure the Pac 10 would want to expand sooner or later but Utah wouldn't get good until 2005, so I don't know who they would get to join with Colorado. Also, if Colorado leaves teh Big 12 who do they get to replace them? I used to think BYU as the Big 12 already has Baylor as a religious school but that might be too much to work around as BYU doesn't play on sundays (though Baylor does in spite of being a large Baptist school.)
Is that for basketball, or both sports (they need that NBC contract for football, from what I understand)?
 
Is that for basketball, or both sports (they need that NBC contract for football, from what I understand)?
From what I understand, Notre Dame would have been a full Big Ten member but the issue was over their NBC contract. They must not have found a way to resolve that or a compromise of sorts.
 
From what I understand, Notre Dame would have been a full Big Ten member but the issue was over their NBC contract. They must not have found a way to resolve that or a compromise of sorts.
Yeah, probably. Another poster on this thread (about 10 years ago) said that ND NEEDS that contract. BTW, here is an article discussing this scenario:


Highlights: The author believes that BYU would have joined the Big 12, and Texas A&M doesn't join the SEC.

Now, I want to explore another college conference scenario that was broached on the CSN-BBS forum:


The Eastern Athletic Association was formed in 1976 as a hoops-only conference with these members:

Duquesne
Geo. Washington
Massachusetts
Penn State
Pitt
Rutgers
Villanova
WVU

What if they tried to add football a year later? As the author said, half the teams (Pitt, Pedo U, Rutgers, and WVU) were already 1-A football independents, and they could have added others like BC, Syracuse, and Temple.
 
Yeah, probably. Another poster on this thread (about 10 years ago) said that ND NEEDS that contract. BTW, here is an article discussing this scenario:


Highlights: The author believes that BYU would have joined the Big 12, and Texas A&M doesn't join the SEC.

Now, I want to explore another college conference scenario that was broached on the CSN-BBS forum:


The Eastern Athletic Association was formed in 1976 as a hoops-only conference with these members:

Duquesne
Geo. Washington
Massachusetts
Penn State
Pitt
Rutgers
Villanova
WVU

What if they tried to add football a year later? As the author said, half the teams (Pitt, Pedo U, Rutgers, and WVU) were already 1-A football independents, and they could have added others like BC, Syracuse, and Temple.
I think you could get an Eastern 8 to form, but you'd need some of those basketball schools to join from the Big East. I know one of the big issues at the time was that Joe Paterno supported it, but wanted it to benefit Penn State. Basically if such a league got off the ground then politically it would be the equivalent of the Carolina schools (and especially NC and Duke) in the ACC, or Texas in the Big 12. Paterno would want a league that would be beneficial to Penn State and Penn State alone, but maybe if a football league is formed he would play nice.

If such a league was created (lets say the eastern 8 adds Syracuse, Boston College, Temple and Virginia Tech to get to 12) you'd have a solid 8 team league and you'd have some decent basketball. You might even see the league try to get to 14 teams just so they have 10 in football. Miami, Georgia Tech (an independent until 1978) Louisville, Cincinnati, even Florida State might be decent moves, though the ACC might look to take Miami and FSU or maybe Maryland leaves to go to the northeast to escape Tobacco Road dominance in basketball and that might see their football improve somewhat.
 
here is a couple from ACC country for y'all to ponder.

-in 1957 when UNC wins the national title with back to back 3ot wins vs Mich St and Kansas the seeds were set for the future with the hiring of Dean Smith as a assistant. the other guy up for the gig was Al McGuire. Repercussions and butterflies?

one big difference would have been is if the point shaving scandal that NC State got embroiled in a few seasons later which also led to the heels getting popped by the NCAA for what Wikipedia described as recruiting violations but which had to do more with a variety of things coach Frank McGuire was doing regarding expenses and such. Would chancellor Aycock had given the program to a high strung guy like McGuire when it all came down. Deangot the gig because he was seen as someone who would be a good choice for the time as Carolina "demphasized" the program. Also is it possible Al would have noticed whst was hapoening with state after being a player at St.Johns back when the CCNY scandal went down in '51? And what could have been Deans alternate reality? Before coming to Carolina he was coaching Golf and Baseball at Air Force!

- in 1971 South Carolina went independent, Clemson was supposed to go with them but backed out at the last minute. The league held on at 7 until the end of the decade before picking up Georgia tech in a move that at the time was like taking in a homeless person as Tech was in shambles at that time. But the early 70s was much dufferent, tech was still ok in football and would not have been a option. And the pickings were thin in the region, Va Tech was at best a middling SoCon team whos biggest rival back then was still VMI. ECU was making their first moves to be a athletic force and practically begged to be let in which was meet with a resounding no that pirate fans of that era are still butt hurt by, but they were not ready then, for that matter tgey would not be ready now . The ACC though would have needed new teams if both SC and Clemson bailed. COULD they have gone after Pitt and Penn State? Would a much weaker FSU had been a option? Could this had led to the ACC as it was then scattering to the wind?
 
- in 1971 South Carolina went independent, Clemson was supposed to go with them but backed out at the last minute. The league held on at 7 until the end of the decade before picking up Georgia tech in a move that at the time was like taking in a homeless person as Tech was in shambles at that time. But the early 70s was much dufferent, tech was still ok in football and would not have been a option. And the pickings were thin in the region, Va Tech was at best a middling SoCon team whos biggest rival back then was still VMI. ECU was making their first moves to be a athletic force and practically begged to be let in which was meet with a resounding no that pirate fans of that era are still butt hurt by, but they were not ready then, for that matter tgey would not be ready now . The ACC though would have needed new teams if both SC and Clemson bailed. COULD they have gone after Pitt and Penn State? Would a much weaker FSU had been a option? Could this had led to the ACC as it was then scattering to the wind?
I just found some info on this situation: https://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-football/south-carolina-and-the-acc--why-the-divorce/79325110/

On page 2 of this thread, a poster named Tallujah The Tiger had this to say:

Quote" there was never any pact between Clemson & USC to leave the ACC together. USC was intent on leaving all along, while Clemson would consider leaving only as a last resort. Clemson's leadership decided instead to pursue the matter of the 800 rule in federal court, & it was in 1972 found to be unconstitutional as a violation of the 14th amendment & subsequently was rescinded by the ACC. In 1973 the NCAA imposed nation-wide scholarship limits, thus eliminating that other competitive disadvantage in football.

USC went sulking out of the ACC with both middle fingers in the air, & the ACC basically said back to them "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out". But it wasn't long before USC came to regret its decision. Because of its fan support, USC was able to survive financially as an independent in football & was even able to schedule home-&-homes with big-time opponents (Southern Cal, Michigan, Notre Dame, Miami, Nebraska), but it was only able escape its historical mediocrity for a few brief flashes - the George Rogers era of '79 & '80, the Black Magic season in '84, & the Todd Ellis-led teams in '87 & '88. But if the effect on the football program was kind of a wash, leaving the ACC absolutely, undeniably killed USC basketball. Their program was among the nation's elite in 1970-71 & remained competitive as an independent for a few years after. But outside the ACC it turned out to be much harder to recruit elite talent to USC, & by 1976 USC basketball had fallen into mediocrity from which it never really recovered, & in 1980 Frank McGuire was pushed into retirement. Meanwhile, beginning in the late 70s Clemson enjoyed a period of sustained football success that lasted until the early 90s, including the 1981 national championship, & has mostly had a strong upper hand vs USC in football ever since. Clemson even leads the series in basketball since USC left the ACC. "Quote


If the judge ruled in favor of the NC schools, though, and found the 800 rule consitutional, Clemson may have been more likely to leave the NC-dominated ACC. If they do, you probably see Virginia and Maryland leave as well in the next few years. With just four schools left, and the conference having a bad rep as a NC-controlled conference, I wonder if the ACC would have been dead by the dawn of the 80's.

As for Pitt and Penn St, I can see them doing something with Maryland. However, Virginia wasn't good at anything in the 70's, and Virginia Tech was irrelevant (they tried to get into the ACC in the late-70's, and the conference turned them down just to get them out of the way before they added the Rambling Wreck. They were OK at hoops, but I don't think they hit the football big time until 1999 and Michael Vick).

Speaking of VT, they talk about their failure to get into the ACC in the late 70's at this link: http://archive.techsideline.com/tslpass/2004/article243.htm
 
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I just found some info on this situation: https://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-football/south-carolina-and-the-acc--why-the-divorce/79325110/

On page 2 of this thread, a poster named Tallujah The Tiger had this to say:

Quote" there was never any pact between Clemson & USC to leave the ACC together. USC was intent on leaving all along, while Clemson would consider leaving only as a last resort. Clemson's leadership decided instead to pursue the matter of the 800 rule in federal court, & it was in 1972 found to be unconstitutional as a violation of the 14th amendment & subsequently was rescinded by the ACC. In 1973 the NCAA imposed nation-wide scholarship limits, thus eliminating that other competitive disadvantage in football.

USC went sulking out of the ACC with both middle fingers in the air, & the ACC basically said back to them "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out". But it wasn't long before USC came to regret its decision. Because of its fan support, USC was able to survive financially as an independent in football & was even able to schedule home-&-homes with big-time opponents (Southern Cal, Michigan, Notre Dame, Miami, Nebraska), but it was only able escape its historical mediocrity for a few brief flashes - the George Rogers era of '79 & '80, the Black Magic season in '84, & the Todd Ellis-led teams in '87 & '88. But if the effect on the football program was kind of a wash, leaving the ACC absolutely, undeniably killed USC basketball. Their program was among the nation's elite in 1970-71 & remained competitive as an independent for a few years after. But outside the ACC it turned out to be much harder to recruit elite talent to USC, & by 1976 USC basketball had fallen into mediocrity from which it never really recovered, & in 1980 Frank McGuire was pushed into retirement. Meanwhile, beginning in the late 70s Clemson enjoyed a period of sustained football success that lasted until the early 90s, including the 1981 national championship, & has mostly had a strong upper hand vs USC in football ever since. Clemson even leads the series in basketball since USC left the ACC. "Quote


If the judge ruled in favor of the NC schools, though, and found the 800 rule consitutional, Clemson may have been more likely to leave the NC-dominated ACC. If they do, you probably see Virginia and Maryland leave as well in the next few years. With just four schools left, and the conference having a bad rep as a NC-controlled conference, I wonder if the ACC would have been dead by the dawn of the 80's.

As for Pitt and Penn St, I can see them doing something with Maryland. However, Virginia wasn't good at anything in the 70's, and Virginia Tech was irrelevant (they tried to get into the ACC in the late-70's, and the conference turned them down just to get them out of the way before they added the Rambling Wreck. They were OK at hoops, but I don't think they hit the football big time until 1999 and Michael Vick).

Speaking of VT, they talk about their failure to get into the ACC in the late 70's at this link: http://archive.techsideline.com/tslpass/2004/article243.htm
That'd be interesting but strange to see the ACC die. You might end up with some sort of East Coast conference but if all the ACC schools hate each other who knows where they go. I could see Virginia and Maryland going northeast and maybe being part of a league with Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, and Syracuse. Maybe throw in Boston College and Virginia Tech or Louisville and Cincinnati if they plan to take Football seriously, though Louisville wouldn't do so until Howard Schnellenberger came there for a brief time.
as for the Carolina schools, they'd by hard pressed to find partners to play with. The SEC might be willing to pay ball, and it might give their academics a boost, but a 14 or 16 team SEC wouldn't be feasible in the 80's, though maybe if they did pods it could work. I know the SEC only played 6 game schedules well into the 80's based on my wikipedia searches. Maybe a 16 team league that's just a loose association might work but again the beefs between Tobacco Road and South Carolina might keep that from happening.

My last scenario if the ACC folds might be this? What if a kind of Magnolia League is formed? Have Duke, and Wake Forest join with other Southern private schools like Tulane, SMU,TCU, Rice, Baylor, and Vanderbilt. Maybe even get North Carolina and Georgia Tech to join and you'd have a good academic league. This might have some repercussions on the SEC and especially the Southwest Conference. I could see a 5 team SWC (Texas, A&M, Tech, Arkansas, Houston) trying to create a Big 12 in the 80's or more likely, just adding Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and trying to poach LSU.

Lots of interesting repercussions.
 
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