Sports What Ifs.

So, in discussion about avoiding the Gail Goodrich trade on another timeline, there was this suggestion instead of the Jazz trading for him

NOLA keeps its first round picks. Assume a 24-team draft from '77 on through '79 (a draft I probably will end up building). We're still in '75 in the timeline, so we're nowhere close to figuring out who the heck they pick. Let's say in '77 Bernard King, '78 Reggie Theus (or, Kenny Carr and James Hardy).
Long term consequences?
 
So, in discussion about avoiding the Gail Goodrich trade on another timeline, there was this suggestion instead of the Jazz trading for him



Long term consequences?
In 78, the Jazz went 39-43. Maravich got more help with all-star PF Truck Robinson, but Pete only played in 50 games because of knee problems. Put Bernard King (who scored 24 PPG that year) into that equation, and Pete may not have to go quite as hard. Also, you may see the Jazz win 46-48 games, which would be good enough for the three-seed (and the franchise's first-ever playoff berth).

I can see them beating Cleveland in Round 1 before losing in 7 to SA (who loses to WAS in the ECF). Then, in the 78 draft, they are picking around 16th or 17th instead of 8th, and they probably end up taking DePaul C Dave Corzine (Rich Kelley wasn't that great).

In OTL, they end up going 26-56 in 79. However, with King and Robinson averaging over 20 PPG, and some improved C play with Corzine, they probably win at least 12-15 more games (which gets them in the playoffs, even with Maravich's knee problems). Then, in the draft, they are picking around 10th instead of first, and they may take PG/SG Jim Paxson out of Notre Dame (John's brother and a much better player. He was an all-star with Portland in OTL).

This brings us to the all-important 1979 super Flip. The Bulls were in there for the West. As for the East, you don't have NO/Utah in there in this timeline. Instead, you have the Knicks (Boston traded their first-rounder away for Bob McAdoo, even though they were in the running for the worst record). That means that the Bulls lose the flip to the Knicks instead of the Lakers, and Magic is bound for the Big Apple.

Back to the Jazz, though: They probably still lose Maravich after the 1979 season (to Boston, where he played one year before retiring due to injury). That was also the year that they move to Utah. However, with two straight playoff trips to close out the 70's (and a chance to maybe sneak into a final. The East wasn't that great), maybe that prevents the move somehow, and either the owner (Sam Battistone, who was from Utah) eventually sells the team to NO-based interests (who get a suitable arena built), or he keeps them in NO.
 
In the trade that brought Bucky Dent to the Yankees, George Steinbrenner wanted to include Ron Guidry. General manager Gabe Paul threatened to resign if this was done been convinced the White Sox Lamarr Hoyt was just as good albeit younger.

Suppose Steinbrenner and Paul have an argument just before and, given his impulsive nature in our timeline, Steinbrenner thumbs his nose at his general manager and includes Guidry.

A look at baseball reference.com shows that Guidry had a very good 1983 also oh, the year Hoyt won the Cy Young award, so it was a draw that year and 1982, but otherwise the Yankees are several wins worse every year, maybe only a couple wins worse in 1985.

This means no pennant in 1978 for sure, with Guidry probably winning 21 or 22 for an otherwise bad White Sox team and the Cy Young like Randy Jones had done in 1976 for the Padres. Even if they keep Dock Ellis I can't see them doing quite as well, and they wouldn't have Mike Torrez who they acquired for Ellis, so when Gullett goes down if not before the Yankees are done. Even if they do trade Ellis for Mike Torrez.

Then what? Probably Steinbrenner fires Billy Martin and makes a few trades that wind up badly in 1978, and then? Would he just blow the whole thing up? Rush Hoyt to the Major Leagues and expect him to start because he wants to prove that he was right about trading Guidry because he had just as good a pitcher in the minors?

If things go roughly the same - hopefully they trade Thurm Munson to the Indians so he doesn't have to be flying and died in a crash - they might win the first half in 1981 with voice instead of Guidry, so they might lose the World Series to the Dodgers, but they may end up with no World Series titles in the 70's or 80's. Of course, Steinbrenner might go over the edge firing people long before the end of the '80s.

It's also possible that, lacking a lefty, Dave Righetti is kept as a starter.
 
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In the trade that brought Bucky Dent to the Yankees, George Steinbrenner wanted to include Ron Guidry. General manager Gabe Paul threatened to resign if this was done been convinced the White Sox Lamarr Hoyt was just as good albeit younger.

Suppose Steinbrenner and Paul have an argument just before and, given his impulsive nature in our timeline, Steinbrenner thumbs his nose at his general manager and includes Guidry.

A look at baseball reference.com shows that Guidry had a very good 1983 also oh, the year Hoyt won the Cy Young award, so it was a draw that year and 1982, but otherwise the Yankees are several wins worse every year, maybe only a couple wins worse in 1985.

This means no pennant in 1978 for sure, with Guidry probably winning 21 or 22 for an otherwise bad White Sox team and the Cy Young like Randy Jones had done in 1976 for the Padres. Even if they keep Dock Ellis I can't see them doing quite as well, and they wouldn't have Mike Torrez who they acquired for Ellis, so when Gullett goes down if not before the Yankees are done. Even if they do trade Ellis for Mike Torrez.

Then what? Probably Steinbrenner fires Billy Martin and makes a few trades that wind up badly in 1978, and then? Would he just blow the whole thing up? Rush Hoyt to the Major Leagues and expect him to start because he wants to prove that he was right about trading Guidry because he had just as good a pitcher in the minors?

If things go roughly the same - hopefully they trade Thurm Munson to the Indians so he doesn't have to be flying and died in a crash - they might win the first half in 1981 with voice instead of Guidry, so they might lose the World Series to the Dodgers, but they may end up with no World Series titles in the 70's or 80's. Of course, Steinbrenner might go over the edge firing people long before the end of the '80s.

It's also possible that, lacking a lefty, Dave Righetti is kept as a starter.
If the Sox win the East in 78 instead of the Yanks, they would have had a pretty even series with the Royals in the ALCS. If they win, I think they lose to LA since the Dodgers were there the year before.

Also, does Guidry make a difference for the Pale Hose in 83, or do they still go down to the Birds?
 
Now that I think about it, if Brees is drafted as an effect of the Mirer trade, then I could see a question as to 2005.
On the subject of Brees, I found out something interesting when I was in the Denver Bronco section of Football's Future.

Jack Elway, John's dad, was pushing the team to take Drew Brees with their first-round pick leading up to the 2001 draft. However, he died a week before the draft, and Shanahan drafted CB (and future bust) Willie Middlebrooks instead.

If the Broncos draft Brees, and start him by 2002, they may end up winning another game or two and making the playoffs. Then, in 03, Jake Plummer ends up in Chicago (it came down to them and Denver in OTL) and Rex Grossman ends up with the Packers (I heard that they liked him going into that draft, but the Bears took him in reality).
 
Honestly I don't it would make a damn. That shift was rough as hell and ate people up.
Sure. I remember playing full contact on one of those fields without pads, and shit hurt.
What if not Astroturf?
Well, my point was more how the game would evolve running on a thin carpet instead of grass or artifical grass. I mean, you could add a few layers of wrestling mat padding underneath it to mitigate injuries.
 
Sure. I remember playing full contact on one of those fields without pads, and shit hurt.

Well, my point was more how the game would evolve running on a thin carpet instead of grass or artifical grass. I mean, you could add a few layers of wrestling mat padding underneath it to mitigate injuries.
Adding padding would help to some degree, but not enough to keep it. They would keep looking for something better. As I played on that shit and it wasn't even full contact, that shit still hurt to high hell.
 
Adding padding would help to some degree, but not enough to keep it. They would keep looking for something better. As I played on that shit and it wasn't even full contact, that shit still hurt to high hell.
*shrug*

I was just brainstorming on how to make carpet last longer, because too many teams are averse to natural grass.

If it were up to me, every NFL team would be forced to play on natural grass.
 
On the subject of Brees, I found out something interesting when I was in the Denver Bronco section of Football's Future.

Jack Elway, John's dad, was pushing the team to take Drew Brees with their first-round pick leading up to the 2001 draft. However, he died a week before the draft, and Shanahan drafted CB (and future bust) Willie Middlebrooks instead.

If the Broncos draft Brees, and start him by 2002, they may end up winning another game or two and making the playoffs. Then, in 03, Jake Plummer ends up in Chicago (it came down to them and Denver in OTL) and Rex Grossman ends up with the Packers (I heard that they liked him going into that draft, but the Bears took him in reality).
Man, talk about irony if it was the Chargers defense that wounds Brees in 2005. However, I could see him be a playoff contender and even win more than just the one in '05 AND still be a Bronco (as well as a potential secondary team to like).

Grossman at GB under Favre for his first three or four years gives him time to learn from the Gunslinger and improve his game. Maybe an Alex Smith level of playoff consistency unless that crash and burn was expected. Plummer at Chicago...maybe a winner? Probably a better situation, but I doubt for too long.

For the Saints, with butterflies, there is the potential for either Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Kurt Warner, Vince Young or (outside chance) Tony Romo to take up the mantle of the Who Dat nation. And, still a slightly bigger chance of the team becoming the Los Angeles Saints, but I doubt too too much.
 
Also, does Guidry make a difference for the Pale Hose in 83, or do they still go down to the Birds?
Probably not; Hoyt won Game 1 as it was, and the Orioles tossed 2 shutouts, winning 11-1 in the other game. The team lived up to their other nickname then - the "Hitless Wonders." But, that pitching staff was very good for the Orioles.

If it were up to me, every NFL team would be forced to play on natural grass.
When the Browns announced their move in '95, I made a list of what I liked in an NFL team when I chose a new team to follow. (Cold weather so a chance to see home games in the snow, rich history, great fan base - so my friend Rick and his family probably would have swayed me to the Packers anyway.). People thought I refused to consider the Steelers (and Bengals, but their history isn't as rich) becasue I didn't want a divisional rival as my team (though many in my area did go tot hem). However, it was actually because they played on Astroturf.
 
On the subject of Brees, I found out something interesting when I was in the Denver Bronco section of Football's Future.

Jack Elway, John's dad, was pushing the team to take Drew Brees with their first-round pick leading up to the 2001 draft. However, he died a week before the draft, and Shanahan drafted CB (and future bust) Willie Middlebrooks instead.

If the Broncos draft Brees, and start him by 2002, they may end up winning another game or two and making the playoffs. Then, in 03, Jake Plummer ends up in Chicago (it came down to them and Denver in OTL) and Rex Grossman ends up with the Packers (I heard that they liked him going into that draft, but the Bears took him in reality).
Maybe this is the TL where Aaron Rodgers goes to New Orleans or, maybe, the Packers decide that Grossman has been behind Favre long enough, so they release Favre after the 2005 season...and New Orleans picks him up. Talk about a feel-good story...
 
Maybe this is the TL where Aaron Rodgers goes to New Orleans or, maybe, the Packers decide that Grossman has been behind Favre long enough, so they release Favre after the 2005 season...and New Orleans picks him up. Talk about a feel-good story...
Nah if anything favre stay till 2010 with packers as they would admit defeat how terrible Grossman is.

If anything Saints either give up that second rounder for romo..or take young-leinart....
 
Nah if anything favre stay till 2010 with packers as they would admit defeat how terrible Grossman is.
With three years on the bench and learning from Favre, either he will have some sort of improvement behind a seasoned veteran or it would be a change too late once they realize. I do think they would move on from Favre if need be and the Gunslinger playing for the team he rooted for as a kid as a send-off to his career, but that is just me.

If anything Saints either give up that second rounder for romo..or take young-leinart....
Romo would have a better support system, probably have similar success Brees had, and some better weapons than with Dem Boyz. Though I wonder, if it would be a similar exit as OTL, would Payton have pushed to pick up Mahomes in 2017 or waited for Lamar in 2018? Or would he seriously pass on CBS for more time under center?
 
, would Payton have pushed to pick up Mahomes in 2017 or waited for Lamar in 2018? Or would he seriously pass on CBS for more time under center?
OTL give you the answer..he didn't considered either OTL so he never considred it at all, plus no cowboys not otl injuries and yes..i can say romo staying with saints.

With three years on the bench and learning from Favre, either he will have some sort of improvement behind a seasoned veteran or it would be a change too late once they realize. I do think they would move on from Favre if need be and the Gunslinger playing for the team he rooted for as a kid as a send-off to his career, but that is just me.
I think you're underestimating how much grossman suck, he was awful, each month he decreased his passer rating, if anything he will be a white brett hundley if lucky enough
 
Wouldn't that just make him an early Matt Flynn? Breathe a sigh of relief about Favre unretiring in '08, then conveniently let him go via trade because "he'll be a free agent anyway" and then package the pick(s) and their own to move up if they have to in '09 or '10. (Looks at '09) Ugh, Satafford's going #1 so unless someone different is there who doesn't need a QB, they're not getting him. But, Favre gets them to the playoffs in '09, maybe even the NFC title game, and in 23010...well, Bradford if he can move down, then...

You know, they probably take a flier on a kid out of little Delaware in '08, actually. Yeah, Joe Flacco was good enough to get them to 1-2 with a good supporting cast, and would be even better behind Favre for a couple years. Yeah, that's it.
 
OTL give you the answer..he didn't considered either OTL so he never considred it at all, plus no cowboys not otl injuries and yes..i can say romo staying with saints.
There was a lot of smoke in 2017 around Payton's interest in Mahomes, enough to compel Andy Reid to trade up.

Speaking of which, what happens if Reid doesn't trade up and Payton does take Mahomes? If Mahomes becomes the starter after one year like he did in KC, where does Brees end up?
 
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