Spanish instead of French Revolution?

Could the major event of the late 18th century have happened in Spain instead of France?

If so, how would its character differ?
If not, why not?
 

Maoistic

Banned
Well, if it would have happened, Latin Americans would be far less self-deprecating, that's for sure. The French Revolution is an outright cult in Latin America. Intellectuals in Latin America always lament these two things: that Latin Americans aren't Protestant, and that they aren't French.

Joking aside, Spain would have had to intervene more strongly in the American Revolutionary War. Spain intervened on the side of George Washington, a fact that has been downplayed to infinity in both Hispanic and Anglo-Saxon historiography, but at the same time, it is also undeniable that Spain simply didn't provide as many troops and as much financial assistance as the French, which is why Spain didn't bankrupt in the 1780s, this being the cause of France undergoing its (overrated) revolution. If Spain decides to assist the revolutionaries just as much if not more than France, it's possible that Spain's unstable economy after the Seven Years War would have bankrupted, or similar, thus causing a short of revolution carrying the ideas of the Enlightenment that had been partly sponsored by the Bourbons.
 

mad orc

Banned
On first glance, the sheer amount of conservativeness in Spain doesn't make this seem likely though i am interested to see the answers .
 
No, i don't think Is possible, Spain in The era of The french revolution have three conditions that make The revolution improbable (not imposible mind You)
1.- Smaller population than France,(11 million vs 28 million) that make The pressure over The land and food less intense.
2.- A enormous Colonial Empire where to dump The more problemátic subjects, and one that works as a release pressure valve, as they more ambitious men(and women) could go to make themselves rich.
3.- A less Educated general population, and the educated population Is more controles by The state
 

Maoistic

Banned
On first glance, the sheer amount of conservativeness in Spain doesn't make this seem likely though i am interested to see the answers .
The Bourbons promoted the ideas of the Enlightenment (see the Bourbon reforms), so not even true for the monarchy. Heck, for all the talk about the Spanish Inquisition and the unique fanaticism of Spanish Catholicism in general, the modern models of monarchical absolutism and dictatorship first developed in France and England. Revolution could have broke out in Spain, as you can see by the Comunero revolt over two centuries prior or the Tzeltal Mayan revolt of 1712 that was outright anti-monarchical and anti-colonial. Also, the Cadiz Courts that ended in the Latin American revolutions are only about two decades older than the breakout of the French Revolution. Spain was hardly more conservative than France and just as capable of revolution.

Also, Spain was on the revolutionary side of the ARW.
 
I’m not sure that Spain has the financial and military resources to defend the revolution if other countries decided to intervene.
 

Maoistic

Banned
No, i don't think Is possible, Spain in The era of The french revolution have three conditions that make The revolution improbable (not imposible mind You)
1.- Smaller population than France,(11 million vs 28 million) that make The pressure over The land and food less intense.
2.- A enormous Colonial Empire where to dump The more problemátic subjects, and one that works as a release pressure valve, as they more ambitious men(and women) could go to make themselves rich.
3.- A less Educated general population, and the educated population Is more controles by The state

The Dutch revolt broke out with even less population than Spain (sure, higher population density, but still at the time of the Dutch revolt in the latter half of the 16th century, its population was, what, 5 million people?), you don't mention how France bankrupted fighting the ARW, something that didn't happen to Spain, there's also the fact that Spain underwent the Comunero revolt over two centuries before the French revolution when it also had even less population than it did in the 18th, and that France's general population was hardly more educated than Spain. Also, Haiti, having a population of about 500,000 to maybe a million, underwent an even more radical revolution than France. Were the Haitian slaves just as educated as their French colonial masters? Doubt so.
 

Maoistic

Banned
I’m not sure that Spain has the financial and military resources to defend the revolution if other countries decided to intervene.
France was incapable of doing it as well, as the revolution only lasted for a decade and ended disastrously with Napoleon's coup.
 
No, i don't think Is possible, Spain in The era of The french revolution have three conditions that make The revolution improbable (not imposible mind You)
1.- Smaller population than France,(11 million vs 28 million) that make The pressure over The land and food less intense.
2.- A enormous Colonial Empire where to dump The more problemátic subjects, and one that works as a release pressure valve, as they more ambitious men(and women) could go to make themselves rich.
3.- A less Educated general population, and the educated population Is more controles by The state

Another factor would be the influence of the American Revolution and the new US constitution on public opinion. France had just fought to help this new nation win its freedom, which naturally led people to question why French society could not also be more democratic. The US constitution also provided a potential model for reform ; the Third Estate insisted on a constitution for France as well.

Spain would not have gone as far to help the Americans as France did, for the simple reason that it did not want to encourage revolt in its own colonies. (Officially, Spain fought only as ally of France, although it did covertly aid the Americans.)

France was incapable of doing it as well, as the revolution only lasted for a decade and ended disastrously with Napoleon's coup.

France was capable of keeping the revolution going - it defeated its enemies. It was simply ended by Napoléon's ambition.
 
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Maoistic

Banned
Another factor would be the influence of the American Revolution and the new US constitution on public opinion. France had just fought to help this new nation win its freedom, which naturally led people to question why French society could not also be more democratic. The US constitution also provided a potential model for reform ; the Third Estate insisted on a constitution for France as well.

Spain would not have gone as far to help the Americans as France did, for the simple reason that it did not want to encourage revolt in its own colonies.



France was capable of keeping the revolution going - it defeated its enemies. It was simply ended by Napoléon's ambition.
It did so momentarily, since the constant war with its enemies, mainly Britain, is what weakened it enough to get taken over by Napoleon. Maybe it's true Spain's revolution would have lasted less than a decade, but my point is that the French revolution was temporary too and not successful since a form of monarchy and nobility was able to re-establish itself which lasted for nearly a century more until the Franco-Prussian war.
 
Spain did not have the same Enlightenment involvement that occurred in French literary and salon circles. People like Voltaire, Rousseau and de Montesque laid the intellectual framework that caused people to question the established order. You would have to somehow plug Spain into being an Enlightenment centre with a POD around 1700.

The other problem is that you need a certain size of urban peasantry to be a force capable of revolution. I don't think Madrid had anything equivalent to the sans culottes.
 
Spain did not have the same Enlightenment involvement that occurred in French literary and salon circles. People like Voltaire, Rousseau and de Montesque laid the intellectual framework that caused people to question the established order. You would have to somehow plug Spain into being an Enlightenment centre with a POD around 1700.

I don't think that was an issue, considering how enlightened absolutism was pretty much the ruling order in Spain in the eighteenth century. It's just that everyone participating in the Spanish Enlightenment was a member of the empowered elite, while the French Enlightenment had many wealthy participants who aspired to power but had none themselves.

Your point about urbanism, though, is true.
 

Maoistic

Banned
The resistance to Napoleon through guerrilla fighting shows that Spain's population was capable of revolution. None arose simply because Spain wasn't bankrupted and ensuing social problems like starvation didn't appear as a result. And again with the idea that Spain didn't have Enlightenment ideals. For one, Spain joined the side of the American revolutionaries. And the Bourbons basically adopted the Enlightenment absolutism of Prussia. Spaniards also knew about Rousseau and Montesquieu. It's why Latin Americans also knew about them. Really, all the elements for revolution are there, with the exception of a more unstable economy as a result of losing colonies and engaging in an extremely expensive war against Britain overseas.
 
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