Simple enough. Is there a way to have Spanish Explorers discover Hawaii before Cook?
Spanish Hawaii?
- Thread starter Fenrir_Angerboda
- Start date
Discover? Yes, probably. I can't see why not. There were numerous cross-Pacific Spanish voyages - the Philippines were supplied via the Americas, not the India route, for instance. Guam and such were found by Magellan on his travels for the King of Spain. But I'm doubtful about whether the Spaniards could've actually taken over Hawai'i. If I were to speculate I'd say that the Spaniards finding Hawai'i would occur rather as a lot of later European Pacific discoveries - explorer finds island, explorer claims island for home country, explorer names island, explorer sails off and island is forgotten for another 50-100 years before a different country comes along and claims it.
That's my take, anyway.
That's my take, anyway.
In fact, that exactly what happenned with quite a few of the islands Cook "discovered", as they had already been discovered by the spanish , portuguese or dutch (and, strangely enough, by the people actually living there, none of whom got the merit of discovery)
Hawai is quite isolated. The spanish navegation paths went southeast from the Philipinnes to the Maguellan straits. It was not until the US settled the west coast than Hawai became strategically important, so if the Spanish managed to settle California -or even build the Nicaragua channel, they would pay a lot of attention to Hawai
David S Poepoe
Banned
The first half of your post is entirely wrong. The Spanish gold filled 'Manila Galleon' proceeded westward across the Pacific and made landfall usually around to Acapulco from whence cargo was transported overland to Mexico City or further to the Vera Cruz and to home ports. Not a lot of gold made its way around the Cape.
Hawaii would have been a vital port since the galleons could replenish their water and supplies. Had the Spanish moved their Pacific coast operations to either San Diego or Monterey Bay there is a greater chance that the islands would have been sighted by galleon captains. It is known that the settlement of Monterey, California, was put off by the Spanish by about 100 years - which is an entirely different WI.
The Spaniards must colonize the California area first before Hawaii. If the Spaniards colonizes California, for sure, the Spaniards would go to Hawaii to make as stopover between California and the Philippines.
POD: The Spanish discover gold in California? Rush and heavier settlement ensues. California gets a Captain-General and the Spanish build a port in Honolulu?
David S Poepoe
Banned
Regarding the settlement of Monterey, California. Typical bureacratic infighting and general length of time it took for messages to transit between Mexico and Spain. Red tape has a history of slowing down things.
Interesting to speculate how a Spanish Hawaii would have evolved. I's reasonable to imagine the Hawaiian monarchy would have been supplanted by Spanish colonial administration of some kind, and local cultures sublimated into some sort of mixed spanish-native catholic hodge-podge like the Phillipines. Spanish ownership of Hawaii may have continued into the late 1800's. If we don't butterfly away the Spanish-American War, it would be very reasonable to assume the US would seize the islands. I suspect might would not lead to a statehood track, because there would not be the local anglo planters to form a ready-made american political elite. Rather, Hawaii might be treated as an essentially much more "foreign" place more like Cuba, the Phillipines, or Guam - some sort of protectorate with permanent leases on Pearl Harbor, perhap ultimately independence or permanent territorial status.
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David S Poepoe
Banned
Very good points. What also does seen likely is that contact with the Spanish will be equally deadly for any native Hawaiians and that in order to supplement the available work force Filipinos will be brought in. Its entirely likely, as was apparent in various islands of the Caribbean that the local races will entirely die out that a new race and culture will eventually take their place.
I was thinking it may end up along the lines of Pueto Rico.
So, now, let's go with a POD, altough it may seem very unlikely.
Let's say in the late 1600's While Going from Acapulco to Manilla, some of the Manilla galleons are blown off Course, and stumble across the Islands.
now, any more thoughts?
Spain tries to pull a Portugal and establish a trade route around the world? Hopping from Peru/Mexico to Hawaii, then the philli islands, then somewhere in India, even if it's just a port, then to somewhere in Somalia? If the British don't own Singapore yet, Spain might aim for it. Channeling supplies from India never hurts, historically.