Spain without the civil war

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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Deleted member 1487

What would be Spain's evolution and path in WW2 without the civil war? Let's say that Jose Castillo avoids assassination, which prevents Jose Sotelo from being assassinated in retaliation, so things doesn't escalate to the point of war prior to WW2. How does the rest of Europe evolve without WW2 escalating international tensions?
 
Not good for the URSS as the civil war was a very good business for them see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_gold
Better for Italy as the intervention in Spain not only was strategically useless but was extremely costly for the nation (it was one of the reason the armed forces were in such dire state at the start of the second world war)...not considering having learn the wrong lesson from the war.
Less good for Germany, as the control they had over the spanish mine due to the war payment were important for the rearmament, as the combat experience gained there
Better for France as there is less internal tension due to the war in Spain as catalyst for the left and right.

Without the common interest in the Spain situation, maybe Benny will not search a more closer relationships with Germany and both London and Paris will have more time to solve the difference with Rome.
 
Haha yeah, Franco purposely sent Italian troops into a meat grinder so Mussolini would send more troops. Less death.
 

Deleted member 1487

Without the common interest in the Spain situation, maybe Benny will not search a more closer relationships with Germany and both London and Paris will have more time to solve the difference with Rome.
Maybe WW2 is butterflied?
 

Deleted member 1487

Doubtfoul, Adolf really want his war
I'm wondering if the military would go along if Italy was aligned against them and perhaps the 1938 Anschluss wouldn't be allowed if Mussolini was on the side of the Allies. Hitler might have been stopped at Munich too without Mussolini negotiating for Hitler.
 
Haha yeah, Franco purposely sent Italian troops into a meat grinder so Mussolini would send more troops. Less death.

If Italy had sent properly trained soldiers it would have not been a meat grinder for them. Only one of the infantry divisions sent had a significant number of what could be considered active service NCO & officers. Even it had a portion of the recently trained cadre replaced with 'stale' reservists & fresh conscripts. The other divisions & corps units were mostly reservists with Facist party membership. This men were "volunteered" by Facist party leaders who had been hades quotas. Unable to fill the ranks will those some reservist without party membership were volunteered as well. Preparatory training was poor. Morale was for obvious reasons low, weapons truing stale, tactics not understood, and staff work poor to very bad. In the first significant attack the Italian corps made he battalion commanders were not informed where the Spanish from lines were. They marched to their attack positions in columns in a morning fog without reconissance or liaison with the Spanish they were to support. The result was the leading companies blundered straight into machine gun fires, the lead battalions pinned down, and the following battalions attempted to also attack into the same killing fields. Things improved for a few battalions & regiments but overall the italian corps was a mass of demoralized & poorly trained men who's goal was to get home alive. A 'Blackshirt' legion was raised, but it was little better in morale & in many ways worse in training.
 
I'm wondering if the military would go along if Italy was aligned against them and perhaps the 1938 Anschluss wouldn't be allowed if Mussolini was on the side of the Allies. Hitler might have been stopped at Munich too without Mussolini negotiating for Hitler.

Benny reaction towards Austria depend on how much the italian economy is dependent of Germany and how France and UK react as is doubtfoul that for all his boister that Mussolini will go alone at this stage. A war over the Sudetenland crisis is much more probable if Mussolini will not be supportive of Hitler objective and will instead back on the Stresa Front.
In this scenario there is the possibility that the war will start with German and (possibly) Poland vs Czech and URSS
 
I think that's why Franco sent them in to be slaughtered, not just to get more soldiers, but better trained troops.

He knew what he was doing to an extent, he knew the Italians weren't going to send their best. It was gamble that they'd send more or devote less support.

If the civil war didn't happen Italy wouldn't have learned anything. That is to say if they learned from their time in Spain at all. I think the Greek campaign proves that.
 
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