Spain or Portugal hold on to parts of Latin America

In my For the Glory game, Spain continues to have holdings in Latin America despite the existence of Mexico and Colombia in the 1770s. There's both a Portuguese Latin America AND a small Brazil centered around Rio.

Gamey weirdness aside, could the Latin powers had held onto any parts of their American colonies (aside from Caribbean islands)? I mean, the British were able to, why not the Iberians?
 

Cook

Banned
Well the Portuguese held onto their Empire longer than most of the British, and gave it up for internal reasons rather than external pressure.
 
Well, there was United kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves. Every part of the country was basically homeland rather than colonies, so you could do something with that.
About Spain.... well' i'm not all that sure...
 
Spain gives up a majority of its colonies and only keeps the really profitable ones, some get independence, some get given or annexed by other countries ie, America, Britain

There can defiantly be some in Latin America, I did see a map somewhere that showed exactly this.

EDIT.Can't find it so I made one

AoC Map 1850.png
 
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About Spain.... well' i'm not all that sure...

Three words, the Arandite Plan.

The Empire was set up according to the Arandite Plan, a scheme that Charles' favourite the Duke of Aranda also drew up in a slightly different form in OTL, but was never implemented. The idea behind this was to divide the Spanish colonies into autonomous Kingdoms ruled by Charles' younger brothers, while he would be Emperor over them all and also King of Spain proper - the latter part in theory, as Spain had fallen to his older brother Philip VII.

http://wiki.alternatehistory.com/doku.php/timelines/empire_of_new_spain
 
hmmm... now that you mention it, I remember a proposal that most early Mexican independanists supported, according to which, in return for greater autonomy, the King of Spain will also be declared the emperor of Mexico, which will remain loyal to him. But then this guy came and said he was the emperor of Mexico so the plan got ruined.
 
hmmm... now that you mention it, I remember a proposal that most early Mexican independanists supported, according to which, in return for greater autonomy, the King of Spain will also be declared the emperor of Mexico, which will remain loyal to him. But then this guy came and said he was the emperor of Mexico so the plan got ruined.

That seems plausible. Nevertheless, we have to ackknowledge that such things did not work on the long run IOTL. The British Empire intrpoduced dominions, which then gained more and more autonomy until they have barely recognizable "special relations" left today.

The problem most likely is that interests of Spain and its "Dominions" will diverge more and more, and independence is the easiest solution to htis. The second easiest is democracy with considerable subsidizing of the poorer parts - something that works today, but back then?
 
Well, the Spanish were sending forces to subdue the New World as late as the 1830s. Perhaps they could be more successful somewhere like Peru?
 
Keeping Peru (including present day Bolivia, and probably Chile as well) is not that hard; its independence was more won by San Martin of Argentina than by any home-grown independence movement. Have San Martin die during the campaign; Argentina can already stand without him, but his second in command is of African descent - not a problem to his Army, not a significant problem to the Argentines, but brings Peruvian collaboration to a screeching halt...
 
Keeping Peru (including present day Bolivia, and probably Chile as well) is not that hard; its independence was more won by San Martin of Argentina than by any home-grown independence movement. Have San Martin die during the campaign; Argentina can already stand without him, but his second in command is of African descent - not a problem to his Army, not a significant problem to the Argentines, but brings Peruvian collaboration to a screeching halt...

Perhaps you don't need to kill San Martín. Perhaps a more clever spanish Cortes and King are enough.

Originally posted by Simón Bolívar*

The new order of the things makes me to think that (...), if the spanish government accepts the treaty made in Mexico between the generals Iturbide and O'Donojú, and Ferdinand VII or other european prince is established there, they will have similar pretensions over all the other free governments of the Americas, willing to end their differences with them under the same principles agreed in Mexico. Transferred to the New World, those european princes, supported by the kings of the Old World, could cause very deep alterations in the interests and the systems adopted by the governments of the Americas. Therefore, I think that now, more than ever, the final expulsion of the spaniards from all the continent is essential
Originally posted by Simón Bolívar*

The throne of Mexico will have constantly pretensions over the bordering Colombia, whose system will be a worry to him (...) A strong and energic governement like the Monarchy has innumerable means and resources to attack a neighbour which is not so strong and energic
Simón Bolívar and Niko Malaka think that it's the key moment and the only option to make the OP question possible. It's true that both of them have important flaws and some dissociations with the reality, but still.
Of course, in this scenario Spain wouldn't keep entire vicerroyalties, which would be autonomous, but some small bits perhaps could be kept under direct spanish rule. On the other hand there are some problems with this option. I don't know if in other vicerrolaties other than New Spain and Perú, the plan could have acceptance at this moment, and even in Perú the royalist armies are in very bad situation, something that won't change with the death of San Martín.
Also, I can't think right now about possible candidate places/territories to stay under direct spanish rule. The castle of San Juan de Ulúa stayed in spanish hands until long after the independence of Mexico (is that what are you referrering, Faeelin? It was only until 1825:confused:) Could be an option?.

Cheers

*Translated by me. Sorry for the bad quality.
 
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