Spain or Norway accepts the HSF

Germaniac

Donor
Prior to the High Seas Fleets internment at Scapa Flow both Spain and Norway were asked to intern the fleet. Both refused the offer. What would have happened if the German Fleet had been accepted by one of these countries.

I am assuming that since the German Fleet will not be safely tucked away in Scapa Flow under the watchful eye of the British, the fleet my act differently than it did in OTL.
 
Interesting with the British not in control the possibility of returning to Germany instead of scuttling is there(especially if Norway accepts), but of course that would mean a return to hostilities. I guess the fleet could be a bargaining chip for the Germans. Perhaps attempting backroom deals with different allied powers. Both the Italians and French were demanding a quarter of the fleet for themselves I wonder what they'd be willing to trade for it.
 
Prior to the High Seas Fleets internment at Scapa Flow both Spain and Norway were asked to intern the fleet. Both refused the offer. What would have happened if the German Fleet had been accepted by one of these countries.

I am assuming that since the German Fleet will not be safely tucked away in Scapa Flow under the watchful eye of the British, the fleet my act differently than it did in OTL.
Do you mean the Germans sign the armistice and both sides agree to place the HSF in a neutral port until things are sorted out or do you mean the HSF makes a run for a neutral port before the armistice?

The former, expect pretty much as per any TLs in which the fleet goes to Scapa but doesn't scuttle: The fleet is dispersed amoungst the victors after Versailles; In the case of the British and Yanks allocated vessels are examined closely then disposed of, in the case of the Frogs and Italians a few of the better ships may be maintained in service; Krauts may maintain a few of the first generation Dreadnoughts instead of the Pre-Dreds.

The latter? Running for Spain means the Grand Fleet has a turkey shoot. Running for Norway or Sweden may allow the HSF to make port without being intercepted. Surviving ships are interned... now, I'm not familiar with the details of international law but IIRC on the end of the war vessels interned are released back to the nation that owns 'em... so, unless the Krauts can convince the Spanish/Norweigans/Swedes to buy said fleet the vessels will ultimatly end up in Entente hands.
 
Since its very unlikely that the HSF would get anywhere near the straits of Dover, let alone to Spain, any other destination other than Scapa Flow is useless. The Allies can just continue the blockade against Germany until the fleet surrenders itself to the Allies.
 
Interesting can o' worms...

If the fleet was interned in Norway or Spain, I'd say the great scuttle would be less likely, since Britian can't just walk in and take the ships--supposedly.

No great scuttle, and things get very interesting when they start dividing the spoils.
 
Although technically neutral Norway actually was more closely linked to the UK than to Germany in WW1 and kept neutral, because both fighting forces considered a neutral erea close at hand usefull fro their objectives.

If the German Fleet was interned in Norway, something as in WW2 would certainly happen, as in the Altmarck case of 1940. Britain would simply violate neutrality to either sink, or capture the Hochseeflotte either inside, or outside Norwegian waters. Spain is not realy an option, being too far away and the route around Scotland was also around Scapa Flow, meaning suicidal at best. The Channal was closed for any shipping, due to the heavy mining and other dangers there. (perhaps the Netherlands would be better suited, being a direct neighbouring state to Germany.)
 
hmmm i could see the HSF being anchored in the zuiderzee (which is still open at that time).

have to agree with warspite, much more logical.

And although technically neutral, lots of sympathy for germany
 
Do you mean the Germans sign the armistice and both sides agree to place the HSF in a neutral port until things are sorted out or do you mean the HSF makes a run for a neutral port before the armistice?

Cockroach

I'm pretty certain the former was mentioned. IIRC the Germans tried getting the fleet held at a neutral port, after the armistice but no one was willing to accept it. [Possibly partly due to allied pressure as Britain especially wanted to avoid the uncertainties].

If it had occurred then it depends on whether or not the fleet is still scuttled or not. [Since the Versailles Treaty is still likely to have some deal to transfer most of the ships to the allies/associate powers. Britain especially doesn't want them in German hands and other powers don't want them going to Britain - which was I think one of the suggestions, based on wartime losses]. Hence you might still have elements of the German sailors manning them decide to sink the fleet rather than have it given away. [One possibly effect of this is that OTL I think the main ship that survived the scuttle, thanks to quick RN action, was the Baden and Britain used it, along with some of our own older ships, for various tests on underwater protection. This is unlikely to happen if it was sunk in a neutral port, especially say a deep fiord].

If they don't I think there was a rough agreement on a possible share-out of the fleet with a suggestion that Britain and the US wouldn't keep more than 1-2 capital ships for more than a few years. [Rather a while since I read up on this so could be remembering this wrongly]. Britain is unlikely to keep any prizes long because the navy was going into a deep post-war cut-back and there would be no point in keeping alien and elderly ships. France and Italy might seek to keep a couple of capital ships but they would probably be of limited use.

Steve
 
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