Spain in the Axis

one of my 'what if' books has a chapter on this scenario... in it, Gibralter falls, but the Spanish navy is creamed by the RN.....
 

CalBear

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This would be a disaster for the Reich. Spain doesn't give the Axis anything useful in return for the extra effort it presents. They add another weak sister, almost certainly the Heer will have to send troops (which they don't have) to support the Spanish Army, much as happened with Italy. This also has the potential to bring Portugal into play, providing the Allies with bases that can interdict the southern section of the Bay of Biscay.

The Atlantic islands Spain controls are meat on the table for the RN & will provide excellent airbases to patrol the U-Boat routes into the Atlantic (which had to detour far to the south to avoid Costal Command). Gilbraltar will likely prove to be more of a problem than some people are projecting. It is extremely unlikely that any Spainish entry into the war would be a surprise, this would allow the British to reinforce the Rock and provide additional fleet coverage, including carrier support (granted the RN airwings weren't the greatest at the time, but the Spanish would have their hands full without carriers and big gun warship providing support to the defenders). Hitler can, on paper, use the manpower, but will the Spainish Army be any stronger in Africa or on the Eastern Front than the Italians?
 
Guerrillas can be nasty. But unless you're scared pale by casualties over time per contemporary US in Iraq (which no WW2 nation was), they're a nuisance, not a great military problem.

They're not a great military problem if you prevent them from becoming one. Given that the mos timportant military thing is logistics, that means you have to prevent them from preying on your logistics. If you do that, they're not a big problem. But if you do that, you are investing resources on security that you coul dbe using elsewhere. In other words, they are a drain on resources, and as we all remember, the Axis wasn't the side with plenty of resources. Plus there is the morale factor, of course.
 
Gilbraltar will likely prove to be more of a problem than some people are projecting.

I don't know if you include me. I just said Gibraltar will fall. I did not say it would be easy.

It is extremely unlikely that any Spainish entry into the war would be a surprise, this would allow the British to reinforce the Rock and provide additional fleet coverage, including carrier support (granted the RN airwings weren't the greatest at the time, but the Spanish would have their hands full without carriers and big gun warship providing support to the defenders).

And, in fact, my assessment is that Gibraltar falls with a determined German participation. Air assets, artillery, engineers. And, of course, those are things that have to be diverted there from somewhere else. If Spain does jump in, my assessment is that the Germans do send that help.

Hitler can, on paper, use the manpower, but will the Spainish Army be any stronger in Africa or on the Eastern Front than the Italians?

I'm Italian, and I will say that when defending their own turf, be it in Spain proper or in their colonies, the Spaniards will be more determined than the Italians in 1943. That won't mean a lot unless they are properly equipped, of course, which is the point I made; does Germany want to spread their hardware even thinner?

As to on the Eastern Front, the Spaniards of the Division Azúl were probably tougher than the average Italian division there. Again it should be said they had full German equipment, i.e., they were better off than the average Italian division.
 
I cannot see too many good things coming from the direction of Spain, as pointed out.

Hitler really didn't have a great selection to choose his "major" Axis-partners from: Italy, Spain... Rumania... ;-)

Japan pretty much being the only one which didn't need constant support or supervising. And by not attacking the Soviet Union, that Axis-Partner was sort of wasted.

Germany+Britain would have been the perfect match to conquer the world: wehrmacht + Royal Navy + Luftwaffe/RAF.


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I think it would depend on when Spain entered the Axis. Certainly any time after the invasion of the SU it would have been nothing but a hinderance and likely a handicap.

If it was before France fell (and so unlikely as to be ASB) Franco might have as well committed suicide.

If it was around the same time Italy entered though...it is possible Spain might have actually helped the Axis war effort. If in the short term of course. Long term Spain is likely to become a burden though.
 

Goldstein

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I think it would depend on when Spain entered the Axis. Certainly any time after the invasion of the SU it would have been nothing but a hinderance and likely a handicap.

If it was before France fell (and so unlikely as to be ASB) Franco might have as well committed suicide.

If it was around the same time Italy entered though...it is possible Spain might have actually helped the Axis war effort. If in the short term of course. Long term Spain is likely to become a burden though.

I couldn't agree more.
 
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