What PODs are needed for Spain to join the Axis during WWII and Portugal to join the Allies? How would that change the war?
You'd need a shorter and less destructive civil war. In 1940 Spain was in no shape to join anything.
A 2nd PoD would be to make Hitler really, really, really desperate for spanish help. In OTL Hitler and Franco met to discuss Spain's entry in the war. Since Franco was not very keen on joining the Axis, he made all kinds of ludicrous exigences, such as Portugal, parts of southern France, and all of french North Africa. Hitler of course refused. Maybe if he accepted, Franco would have bitten.
In the event of Spain joining the Axis, Portugal would have joined the Allies, if only because spanish plans in this events included a preemptive invasion of Portugal to prevent it from joining the Allies...
[shameless plug]If you want a couple of alternates Spain and Portugal in WWII, just check my sig's link[/shameless plug]
I imagine that Franco would not be allowed to keep the power in Spain, but who would be his successor?
Well, both their battleships were sunk during the Civil War- one by each side! Their cruisers were based on British designs, but 1 was hopelessly obsolete, leaving:Apparently, the Japanese offered to reward Spain with the Phillipines, in exchange for the Spanish Navy coming to their aid in the Pacific. Franco was probably pretty wise to turn that offer down; I can only imagine the state of the Spanish Navy in 1940, as compared to the U.S. Navy.
Apparently, the Japanese offered to reward Spain with the Phillipines, in exchange for the Spanish Navy coming to their aid in the Pacific. Franco was probably pretty wise to turn that offer down; I can only imagine the state of the Spanish Navy in 1940, as compared to the U.S. Navy.
It is the first time I hear this. Actually, Franco's attitude towards Japan was extremely hostile. Spain almost declared war on Japan when the little remaining spanish population in Manila was slaughtered in 1942, and Franco offered Roosevelt to send spanish troops to the Pacific under american command to avenge them. Roosevelt declined. Franco's foreign minister once defined Spain's attitude towards the war as "With the Axis in the East, neutrals in the West, with the Allies in the Pacific".
They also had some fairly modern destroyers, but overall they couldn't have contributed much in the Pacific- the fleet was small, mostly obsolescent (apart from 1 cruiser and 15 destroyers) and had no carriers and many of the ships had poor AA armament.
Spanish ships in the Pacific?
Probabily these ships would never reach the pacific.
Where they would re-fuel?
Apparently, the Japanese offered to reward Spain with the Phillipines, in exchange for the Spanish Navy coming to their aid in the Pacific. Franco was probably pretty wise to turn that offer down; I can only imagine the state of the Spanish Navy in 1940, as compared to the U.S. Navy.
At the risk of sounding terribly naive - did this really happen???Apparently, the Japanese offered to reward Spain with the Phillipines, in exchange for the Spanish Navy coming to their aid in the Pacific. Franco was probably pretty wise to turn that offer down; I can only imagine the state of the Spanish Navy in 1940, as compared to the U.S. Navy.
A funny TL would be one with Roosevelt accepting Spain's offer and having another "Blue" division in the Pacific...
At the risk of sounding terribly naive - did this really happen???
Could you kindly give links or sources? And when did it happen? I am not questioning your competence, it just sounds completely incredible!
I was just thinking the same thing.
Just imagine that Roosevelt accepts the offer, thinking that this would allow him to use Spain as a beach-head to Europe. Spain sends the troops and one small fleet. Franco thinks that with troops in Russia fighting against Communism and troops in the Pacific fighting Japan he will be safe whoever wins the war. What now? Will Hitler decide to attack Spain? Will Roosevelt press Franco to enter the war on the allies side?