Soviets equip North Korean army with StG 44s

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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That is what I'm wondering, especially if US troops start using captured rifles for themselves and liking them.
My Uncle remarked his platoon keeping plenty of PPsh around for when the Chinese tried their wave attacks.He said it was a 50 yard gun at best. Very handy, when angry group was charging your way at 20
 
I keep hearing this statement repeated over and over - but actual interviews with Veterans seems to indicate that this was not the case and that the gun was the most preferred personal weapon of the 4 issued.

My Uncle did not care for the M2 in Korea, but when he was later in Vietnam, he traded with ARVN to get a M2, because he disliked the M16, far less reliable in 1966.

Cold does reduce pressure on some types of smokeless powder, I have experienced near sqib loads in Winter that did not occur in Fall with Shotguns
 

Deleted member 1487

My Uncle remarked his platoon keeping plenty of PPsh around for when the Chinese tried their wave attacks.He said it was a 50 yard gun at best. Very handy, when angry group was charging your way at 20
Kinda makes you wonder how the M16 would have done in that situation. Or at least the .22 M2.
 
According to Michael Cain he used American .30 cal MGs when fighting in Korea, I just looked that up, not knowing he had fought there.

The UK used a lot of .30 Brownings usually on vehicles though. I had no idea the Army used them with infantry, though it made sense to simplify logistics.
 

Deleted member 1487

The UK used a lot of .30 Brownings usually on vehicles though. I had no idea the Army used them with infantry, though it made sense to simplify logistics.
I think they might have been supplied by the US, because the article mentions it was an American MG.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/michael-caine-a-korean-war-vet.html
He would end up being on the receiving end of more than one of these charges while manning an American .30 caliber machine gun. Some nights he would go out on patrol, and these were the most terrifying experiences he underwent in Korea.
 
Kinda makes you wonder how the M16 would have done in that situation. Or at least the .22 M2.
He finished his 2nd Tour before the M16A1 was widespread, not a Fan of the original. The original mags had serious feeding problems too, loading 18+, the springs wouldn't hold up and there would be feed issues. Powder choice would be the same trouble, Korea got hot&humid Summer and cold Winter, so jams galore.
To be fair, he also said the Carbines had magazine issues as well, but not as bad as the M16.
I think when asked, what if they had only the M16 in Korea over the Garand, BAR and Carbines, he said he'd be dead.
 

Deleted member 1487

He finished his 2nd Tour before the M16A1 was widespread, not a Fan of the original. The original mags had serious feeding problems too, loading 18+, the springs wouldn't hold up and there would be feed issues. Powder choice would be the same trouble, Korea got hot&humid Summer and cold Winter, so jams galore.
To be fair, he also said the Carbines had magazine issues as well, but not as bad as the M16.
I think when asked, what if they had only the M16 in Korea over the Garand, BAR and Carbines, he said he'd be dead.
Well then, what if the US had the StG 44? :biggrin:
 
Well then, what if the US had the StG 44? :biggrin:
Heh.
He put a lot of stock on the magazines, a high capacity mag that was also reliable. Most of the mags that worked well were 15s in the Carbine
So a reliable 200 yard gun with decent magazines, I think he would have gone for that
 

He didn't seem to consider the caliber all that important, just that it could hit somewhere within an 8" circle of his aim, and it would go 'bang' when trigger was pulled.
He said 'Don't believe that Hollywood BS on somebody getting shot, it's not either instantly dead or something to ignore. Even a 22rimfire will messup somebody's will to keep rmoving towards you-- and if they keep moving, there's nothing stopping you from shooting them some more'
 
I’m having a hard time seeing the Soviet logic here. North Korea was an industrial area with an indigenous communist and socialist movement that needed to be mollified. Part of this was supplying a 10 division offensive army with a nominal capacity to unite the nation. This army was supplied as an industrial army, not a mass army, and so it makes more sense to supply it as if a soviet army to test capacities. Handing out an experimental small arm outside of soviet doctrine is against the point of integrating the North Korean party elite into the soviet nomenklaturas orbit, no?
 
By the sound of it Papa Marathag would have very much liked an AK.
My Uncle said they never used SKS pickups, Too distinctive sound, and 10 round mags wasn't an advantage. He said his company didn't run into many with AK, mostly Mosin bolt actions and SKS in the first tour, but more AKs in the 2nd tour when he was mostly in the Central Highlands
 
The UK used a lot of .30 Brownings usually on vehicles though. I had no idea the Army used them with infantry, though it made sense to simplify logistics.
I read about one instance where an Australian Platoon in Korea that had one .30 Browning MG in Platoon HQ in addition to the usual Platoon weapons, this was in a defensive position. I'm unsure if this was in the official org, or an additional weapon.
The .30 Browning MG turned up with the British in lots of places in the 50's and 60's along with M1 Carbines. I've seen it claimed that some .30 Browning MGs were acquired by rear area/ support personal during the first Gulf War and mounted on vehicles for additional AA/ self defense.
I think they might have been supplied by the US, because the article mentions it was an American MG.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/michael-caine-a-korean-war-vet.html

Anyone else notice what the British Commando has on his back in the stock pic from WW2 in the article?

the-british-army-in-north-west-europe-1944-45-assault-on-the-rhine-and-capture-of-wesel-commandos-make-their-way-over-a-bomb-crater-636x640.jpg
 
This would be like what if US equipped ROK army with Wehrmacht weapons. Why would they? The Germans lost the war, there was no reason to fetishize the weapons of the losing side. The Soviets similarly thought they had the best small arms solution of the war.

Assuming the North Koreans were mass equipped with StG-44, the problem would then be how do you replenish them with ammunition. You would be talking about hundreds of tons per day. Not a problem with massive stockpiles of Soviet WWII surplus, but 7.92 Kurz?

So if StG-44 is issued, it would be to specialists only.
 

Deleted member 1487

This would be like what if US equipped ROK army with Wehrmacht weapons. Why would they? The Germans lost the war, there was no reason to fetishize the weapons of the losing side. The Soviets similarly thought they had the best small arms solution of the war.
Historically the Soviets equipped their Warsaw Pact allies with it, namely East Germany and Czechoslovakia, while Yugoslavia equipped their special forces with it. Both nations made ammo for it in to the 1960s. East German even sold the Egyptians millions of rounds of ammo and thousands of STGs plus a bunch of other WW2 equipment including MG 34s and 42. Later the North Vietnamese even got StG44s and ammo. It has appeared all over the Middle East and Africa too since and for some reason in parts of Pakistan they even use 8mm Kurz ammo in AK47s (it apparently works, but is not recommended).

And it isn't as if the Soviets didn't make use of the StG themselves during WW2:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wwiipics/comments/6qmxy4/two_soviet_soldiers_one_armed_with_a_captured_stg/

Assuming the North Koreans were mass equipped with StG-44, the problem would then be how do you replenish them with ammunition. You would be talking about hundreds of tons per day. Not a problem with massive stockpiles of Soviet WWII surplus, but 7.92 Kurz?
Ship it to them in bulk. The Soviets shipped the North Koreans and Chinese a bunch of stuff during the Korean War IOTL. Ammo was in production in East Germany and Czechoslovakia. Plus there was a pretty massive surplus captured in 1945 by the Soviets, as something like half the rifles and ammo on hand were never even issued due to the war situation, but they kept building right until the factory was captured by the Americans and then turned over to the Soviets with full stocks and equipment and including all the personnel like Schmeisser.

So if StG-44 is issued, it would be to specialists only.
It certainly wouldn't be to everyone, but given the relatively small size of the NK army it would be possible to issue them to most of the infantry, who admitted are a specialist of sorts.

Anyone else notice what the British Commando has on his back in the stock pic from WW2 in the article?

the-british-army-in-north-west-europe-1944-45-assault-on-the-rhine-and-capture-of-wesel-commandos-make-their-way-over-a-bomb-crater-636x640.jpg

So what if the British commandos adopted the StG44? ;)
 
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Deleted member 1487

I’m having a hard time seeing the Soviet logic here. North Korea was an industrial area with an indigenous communist and socialist movement that needed to be mollified. Part of this was supplying a 10 division offensive army with a nominal capacity to unite the nation. This army was supplied as an industrial army, not a mass army, and so it makes more sense to supply it as if a soviet army to test capacities. Handing out an experimental small arm outside of soviet doctrine is against the point of integrating the North Korean party elite into the soviet nomenklaturas orbit, no?
Yet they issued them to Com Bloc nations including the Vietnamese later on.
Effectively it would be getting rid of a surplus weapon that costs them nothing and allows Eastern Bloc nations, who IOTL did give/sell StG44s to communist allied nations, to feel like they're helping (IOTL the Czechs did send doctors and military aid to North Korean). Plus the weapon wasn't outside of Soviet doctrine at all, the Soviets easily plugged the AK47 into existing doctrine without issue, as it was effectively a better SMG+rifle in one.

As to supplies...I'm not sure what North Korea actually produced in terms of weapons. They don't seem to have made much Soviet stuff, as they got their small arms and ammo from the USSR as well as aircraft, tanks, trucks, etc. while their industry was bombed to hell by the USAF pretty soon into the war; they had to source externally because their industry and infrastructure were pretty well wrecked:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea_1950-1953#June–October_1950:_"Precision_Bombing"_But_High_Casualties
Remember North Korea was bombed worse than Germany and Japan combined in part because air defense was virtually non-existent early in the war and it was the only way to fight back as the North Koreans had pushed UN forces back to Pusan.

My Uncle said they never used SKS pickups, Too distinctive sound, and 10 round mags wasn't an advantage. He said his company didn't run into many with AK, mostly Mosin bolt actions and SKS in the first tour, but more AKs in the 2nd tour when he was mostly in the Central Highlands
What years was he there?
 
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