Soviet Union
- Thread starter Blind
- Start date
They could have theoretically annex all of Poland in the Polish-Soviet War if they got lucky, but it would have been difficult.
They did, but it was never seriously considered by the Soviet leadership at the time.
von kressenstein
Banned
Soviet Union decides to become something more than Russia.. so .. enter North Korea, Mongolia, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Poland, East Germany,, the Soviet Union decides that having nations join the union is the easiest way to solidify control and expand the state.
a new capital is built for communist glory.. yes I know.. .0000000000000000009 percent chance of this happening.. and notice I left the Czechs and Hungarians out .. but I would think they would "Join" as well..
note this Union might actually work as it might make the union less Russian centered and more pan slav/communist
or it falls apart 3 weeks later
a new capital is built for communist glory.. yes I know.. .0000000000000000009 percent chance of this happening.. and notice I left the Czechs and Hungarians out .. but I would think they would "Join" as well..
note this Union might actually work as it might make the union less Russian centered and more pan slav/communist
or it falls apart 3 weeks later
The Soviets certainly wanted control over the Nordic countries, the Baltics (sans Greece, though that's debatable), and Turkey, alongside western Europe.
Austria could've been partitioned and if the Soviets performed better the Iron Curtain could've been pushed to the Rhine (Stalin didn't plan to divide up Germany--he thought it would provoke a nationalistic response.)
The Soviets wouldn't mind conquering Denmark.
As for Bulgaria: in September 1939 the Soviets were willing to cooperate against the Turks with the Bulgarians. They even tried to sweeten the deal with Turkish Thrace and some Greek territory. Bulgaria refused at the time.
Bulgaria later attempted twice (early 1960s and early 1970s) to join the USSR.
The Kremlin, at one point, planned to annex Romania and Bulgaria and from there head for Turkey.
Turkey: the Turks approached the Soviets with an offer for an alliance in 1945. The Soviets said there'd have to be a regime change in Turkey and some territory snatching (Kars, etc.). Turkey obviously said no.
The Soviets also planned for Iran, Afghanistan, (before the PRC) Korea, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Xinjiang.
Hokkaido could've been partitioned as well (though the US refused because of the Kuril Islands).
Ghana and the Gold Coast, at first, had plans to create a "West African Soviet Republic".
There was definitely room for the Soviets to expand. Whether or not they could is an entirely different question.
Austria could've been partitioned and if the Soviets performed better the Iron Curtain could've been pushed to the Rhine (Stalin didn't plan to divide up Germany--he thought it would provoke a nationalistic response.)
The Soviets wouldn't mind conquering Denmark.
As for Bulgaria: in September 1939 the Soviets were willing to cooperate against the Turks with the Bulgarians. They even tried to sweeten the deal with Turkish Thrace and some Greek territory. Bulgaria refused at the time.
Bulgaria later attempted twice (early 1960s and early 1970s) to join the USSR.
The Kremlin, at one point, planned to annex Romania and Bulgaria and from there head for Turkey.
Turkey: the Turks approached the Soviets with an offer for an alliance in 1945. The Soviets said there'd have to be a regime change in Turkey and some territory snatching (Kars, etc.). Turkey obviously said no.
The Soviets also planned for Iran, Afghanistan, (before the PRC) Korea, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Xinjiang.
Hokkaido could've been partitioned as well (though the US refused because of the Kuril Islands).
Ghana and the Gold Coast, at first, had plans to create a "West African Soviet Republic".
There was definitely room for the Soviets to expand. Whether or not they could is an entirely different question.
Soviet Union decides to become something more than Russia.. so .. enter North Korea, Mongolia, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Poland, East Germany,, the Soviet Union decides that having nations join the union is the easiest way to solidify control and expand the state.
a new capital is built for communist glory.. yes I know.. .0000000000000000009 percent chance of this happening.. and notice I left the Czechs and Hungarians out .. but I would think they would "Join" as well..
note this Union might actually work as it might make the union less Russian centered and more pan slav/communist
or it falls apart 3 weeks later
A USSR including all the Slavs would be interesting. That is the West Slav states (Poland and Czechoslovakia) and the South Slav states (Bulgaria and Yugoslavia) join the USSR between 1945 and 1950 following rigged plebiscites.
von kressenstein
Banned
I always assumed that is the plan
j/k I think the soviet union might have been more balanced if it had equal balance .. as it was .. Ukraine and Russia were the two dominate players..
but yes a real eastern Europe Slavic state where the republics had real voices and were not just soviet bitches.. then it would be quite interesting to see the results
I always assumed that is the plan
I think the soviet union might have been more balanced if it had equal balance .. as it was .. Ukraine and Russia were the two dominate players..
but yes a real eastern Europe Slavic state where the republics had real voices and were not just soviet bitches.. then it would be quite interesting to see the results
Yes, I thought Bulgaria, Poland, the Ukraine and Yugoslavia might reduce the dominance of the RSFSR.
von kressenstein
Banned
this would be critical and keep the Union from tunring inward and might stabilize and make the union actually stronger if the republics have a stronger voice in matters. you might see a more kinder soviet union
Soviet Union decides to become something more than Russia.. so .. enter North Korea, Mongolia, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Poland, East Germany,, the Soviet Union decides that having nations join the union is the easiest way to solidify control and expand the state.
a new capital is built for communist glory.. yes I know.. .0000000000000000009 percent chance of this happening.. and notice I left the Czechs and Hungarians out .. but I would think they would "Join" as well..
note this Union might actually work as it might make the union less Russian centered and more pan slav/communist
or it falls apart 3 weeks later
You missed out the big one - China!
Instead of the Sino-Soviet split have the Sino-Soviet political union of 1960. The chances are so near zero as makes no difference. However, if it did happen Eastern Europe, the real USSR, Mongolia, China, North Korea and Vietnam are part of one state. And if it managed to convert from communism to capitalism without breaking up...
von kressenstein
Banned
the only problem I see with China is the counter balance is that there are more orientals in the union than slavs.. and always will be ..
I left them out only because they are two equal .. and that means union isn't possible.. I was thinking medium to small to counter balance the RSFSR
unless well .. its just communism and all of a sudden both parties drop the ego and politics.. then sure.. but demographics would make it have to be concerned about china and its people..
so an option is to break up Russian and china.. into smaller SSR's .. then choose a language that is neither Russian or Chinese for the state language.. neither should have dominance in power.. so take Mongolian or something that is Cyrillic but Asian
Agreed. For it to happen both sides had to believe that they were internationalist communists first and Chinese or Slavs not at all.
However, it could have massive implications. If this Megga-USSR existed it might prevent the Cultural Revolution on China. Then the Four Modernisations China began in 1978 would also be applied to the real USSR and Eastern Europe.
Alternatively it could have been the Cultural Revolution in the real USSR and Eastern Europe too. Followed by no economic liberalisation in China until the Gorbachev reforms.
Militarily the Mega-USSR would not have to maintain the armies army and tactical air forces that China and the Real-USSR maintained to fight each other. That would release a huge amount of money that could be spent elsewhere.
Virtually nil chance of it happening though.
The Azerbaijan People's Government could have been unified with the Azerbaijan SSR if the Soviets had not withdraw from Iranian territory in 1946, and the "Republic of Mahabad" (officially the Republic of Kurdistan) could have become the Kurdish SSR, which would have given the USSR claims on large parts of Iraq, Syria and Turkey by proxy. This would have probably have had the effect of making the Arabs more anti-Communist, since they were often a bit too lackadaisical about Communism for Western liking, not to mention the extreme upset this would cause Iranians.
There was also a small Persian Socialist Soviet Republic between 1920–1921 in Gilan province, which was abandoned by the Red Army after Russo-Persian Treaty of Friendship.
I also believe the Soviet Union had many unrealistic plans to foster revolution in India during the time of Lenin. Generally, they were very much looking to expand eastward after the failure of the European revolutions.
There was also a small Persian Socialist Soviet Republic between 1920–1921 in Gilan province, which was abandoned by the Red Army after Russo-Persian Treaty of Friendship.
I also believe the Soviet Union had many unrealistic plans to foster revolution in India during the time of Lenin. Generally, they were very much looking to expand eastward after the failure of the European revolutions.
Merge Soviet union and Warsaw Pact?
The only way I could think of would be if the Soviet Union would be more of a union of equal states with more common economic and social ties then a Moscow-dominated political union. I am thinking what if the Soviet Union were more like the European Union? In the 1950's as they were at less moderately economically successful, many of the Warshaw Pact countries would actually sign up to become a member of the union, much like in the 1990's many of them would move hell and earth to join the EU.
Of course, this demands that the Soviet Union would grant the member states more self-control and not move into Hungary in '57.
The only way I could think of would be if the Soviet Union would be more of a union of equal states with more common economic and social ties then a Moscow-dominated political union. I am thinking what if the Soviet Union were more like the European Union? In the 1950's as they were at less moderately economically successful, many of the Warshaw Pact countries would actually sign up to become a member of the union, much like in the 1990's many of them would move hell and earth to join the EU.
Of course, this demands that the Soviet Union would grant the member states more self-control and not move into Hungary in '57.