Soviet Moon Landing Alliance 1964 - Korolev and Chelomei

According to Boris Chertok's memoirs, Sergei Osipovich Okhapkin, a Deputy Chief Designer at OKB-1, said in November 1964 regarding Sergei Korolev's plans for a lunar mission:
"Do not underestimate Chelomei. He is of the same design school as Tupolev and Myasishchev. If we give him the will and the means, his products will equal those of the Americans. Now is the right moment to combine forces with Chelomei".

Would the Soviet manned lunar program have been more successful if Sergei Korolev had combined forces with Vladmir Chelomei of OKB-52?

The Soviet manned lunar program was charaterized by infighting in which it seemed that the Chief Designers were settling personal grudges and building empires. We also know that there was lifelong animosity between Sergei Korolev and Valentin Glushko, head of OKB-456. The Soviet lunar spacecraft also suffered from poor quality control.

Could the Soviets have avoided the UR-700/LK-700 vs. N1/L3 battle for the manned lunar mission? Would an alliance between Korolev and Chelomei have also brought the support of Valentin Glushko? We know that there was lifelong hatred between Korolev and Glushko. Could Glushko have been persuaded to develop engines for cryogenic fuels earlier and Korolev would not have been forced to go to Kuznetzov? Could the Soviets have landed on the moon?

http://www.astronautix.com/articles/chemoirs.htm
 

Thande

Donor
Could they have landed on the moon: yes, definitely; would they have beat the Americans: different question, even with a POD as early as this.

The problem with the Soviet moonshot was always the N-1. If the UR-700 or its analogue was settled on instead, I see no reason why they couldn't succeed.
 
Could they have landed on the moon: yes, definitely; would they have beat the Americans: different question, even with a POD as early as this.

The problem with the Soviet moonshot was always the N-1. If the UR-700 or its analogue was settled on instead, I see no reason why they couldn't succeed.

The N-1 did have some serious problems. Was Korolev's insistence on cryogenic fuels a snub against Glushko? Or did Korolev really believe that storable fuels were just too dangerous for manned spaceflight?

Also could the lunar landing have been accomplished by multiple launches of the UR-500 "Proton" and the L3 components into Earth Orbit Rendezvous (EOR) to assemble the vehicle and then Lunar Orbit Rendezvous for the landings? Or would this have been considered too risky during the late 1960s, since Chelomei and Glushko advocated moon direct landings?
 

Thande

Donor
Also could the lunar landing have been accomplished by multiple launches of the UR-500 "Proton" and the L3 components into Earth Orbit Rendezvous (EOR) to assemble the vehicle and then Lunar Orbit Rendezvous for the landings? Or would this have been considered too risky during the late 1960s, since Chelomei and Glushko advocated moon direct landings?

I think it could in theory, but as you say at the time it would be too risky - imagine if just one of the Protons failed and they're stuck with half a moonship in a decaying orbit. Politically embarrassing to say the least. (Of course, exactly the same argument applies with the current US Constellation programme...)
 

MacCaulay

Banned
...so...you planning on sending Alexei Leonov to the moon? Cause I'd read a story where he reads the newspaper. Alexei Leonov was awesome.

I remember reading once that someone asked him about the fact that he'd have to spacewalk from the command module to the lander, and he replied that the idea was "sporty."
 
I think it could in theory, but as you say at the time it would be too risky - imagine if just one of the Protons failed and they're stuck with half a moonship in a decaying orbit. Politically embarrassing to say the least. (Of course, exactly the same argument applies with the current US Constellation programme...)

True, we're talking about the mid to late 1960s and the UR-500 "Proton" wasn't the reliable the launch vehicle it has since become.
 
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