Soviet Constantinople

[Mr_Fanboy]

This is a concept that I have seen mentioned in several scenarios, including For All Time, but I do not think that I have seen anyone get into the specifics of what this would entail. So... let's get into specifics!

Let's say that, at some point in the middle to latter part of the 1940s, the Soviet territorial claims against Turkey lead to a war between the two powers. The conflict ends in a crushing Soviet victory: the Armenian SSR and Georgian SSR expand at Turkey's expense, Thrace is ceded to Bulgaria (or perhaps Greece, if this is a timeline where that country goes communist), and perhaps a Kurdish state is even established in the Soviet sphere of influence (let's say that the United States has an isolationist president at this point in time, or at least one too distracted with some other matter to strongly object, and that the other Western powers are in similar situations). But most importantly, Istanbul and the Bosporus are directly annexed to the Soviet Union, thus achieving one of Russia's main foreign policy goals for centuries.

How would this city be administered in the USSR? Would the Turkish majority stay, or, as with Kaliningrad after the Second World War, might they be expelled and replaced with Russians and others from the Soviet Union (perhaps including the Pontic Greeks)?

 

[Saint_007]

The British would lead a coalition to kick the Soviets right out. This is a naval war, and the British have their navy stationed at Cyprus, a mere stone's throw away. Soviets in the Med is NOT something they want.

 

[NiGHTS]

This is a concept that I have seen mentioned in several scenarios, including For All Time, but I do not think that I have seen anyone get into the specifics of what this would entail. So... let's get into specifics!

Let's say that, at some point in the middle to latter part of the 1940s, the Soviet territorial claims against Turkey lead to a war between the two powers. The conflict ends in a crushing Soviet victory: the Armenian SSR and Georgian SSR expand at Turkey's expense, Thrace is ceded to Bulgaria (or perhaps Greece, if this is a timeline where that country goes communist), and perhaps a Kurdish state is even established in the Soviet sphere of influence (let's say that the United States has an isolationist president at this point in time, or at least one too distracted with some other matter to strongly object, and that the other Western powers are in similar situations). But most importantly, Istanbul and the Bosporus are directly annexed to the Soviet Union, thus achieving one of Russia's main foreign policy goals for centuries.

How would this city be administered in the USSR? Would the Turkish majority stay, or, as with Kaliningrad after the Second World War, might they be expelled and replaced with Russians and others from the Soviet Union (perhaps including the Pontic Greeks)?

I'm going with the idea that Greece and Turkey are made communist. Stalin may try to replace the Turks there with Russians since he would most likely consider Turks to be a suspicious ethnicity that aren't loyal to the USSR. The city would most likely still be called Istanbul. It would probably be attached to the RFSSR, similar to how Kalingrad was. It would be a major outpost for the Soviet Navy.

 

[RousseauX]

The British would lead a coalition to kick the Soviets right out. This is a naval war, and the British have their navy stationed at Cyprus, a mere stone's throw away. Soviets in the Med is NOT something they want.

They probably arent gonna do this in 1940

 

[Histor32]

They probably arent gonna do this in 1940

But they sure as hell will in 1945 or 6.. The war won't end if the soviets have taken it.


Soviets would be the enemy.. If its before early 42...

 

[Histor32]

No lend lease.. No help . The allies woukdnwiddke around the edges . The US is more than a match and can supply what is needed. And by 45 or 46 it won't matter . Thing I hate about many of these pods.. Anything between after 1940 is going to end in glass and even worse. Once the bomb is underway . It doesn't matter. Strip Soviet lend lease, Germans invade . Well that sucks doesn't it

 

[RousseauX]

But they sure as hell will in 1945 or 6.. The war won't end if the soviets have taken it.


Soviets would be the enemy.. If its before early 42...

The British was to weak to fight WWIII vs the USSR in 1945, and certainly wasn't in a position to fight a war vs Germany, Italy AND the USSR at once in 1940-41.

even before WWI, Russian possession of Constantinople stop being such a big deal because of British possession of Cyprus blocks Russia/Soviet Navy from entering the Mediterranean -anyway-.

 

[Veiovis]

The British would lead a coalition to kick the Soviets right out. This is a naval war, and the British have their navy stationed at Cyprus, a mere stone's throw away. Soviets in the Med is NOT something they want.

what? the british,busy with changing their "first rate power" to a "we are here too,kinda" hat would not only openly attack the Soviet union,but do in europe,on a place you can literary drive too from moscow and actually win? this is delusional.

 

[RousseauX]

No lend lease.. No help . The allies woukdnwiddke around the edges . The US is more than a match and can supply what is needed. And by 45 or 46 it won't matter . Thing I hate about many of these pods.. Anything between after 1940 is going to end in glass and even worse. Once the bomb is underway . It doesn't matter. Strip Soviet lend lease, Germans invade . Well that sucks doesn't it

In 1940 there was serious talk between germany and USSR for the USSR to enter the Axis and partition the British Empire, Hitler was deciding that the USSR was not too different from dealing with the Russian Emprie. In otl, Stalin asked for too much (he wanted a sphere of influence in the Balkans that Germany wasn't willing to give) and Hitler said no.

If the British decides to fight the USSR in 1940, chances are Stalin would ask for less, then the British nightmare: Germany, Russia and italy allied together to carve up the corpse of the empire probably would have came true.

The US is more than a match and can supply what is needed.

There's also the fact that while US was willing to back the UK to fight the Germans, the same wasn't true of the USSR.

 

[Histor32]

In 1940 there was serious talk between germany and USSR for the USSR to enter the Axis and partition the British Empire, Hitler was deciding that the USSR was not too different from dealing with the Russian Emprie. In otl, Stalin asked for too much (he wanted a sphere of influence in the Balkans that Germany wasn't willing to give) and Hitler said no.

If the British decides to fight the USSR in 1940, chances are Stalin would ask for less, then the British nightmare: Germany, Russia and italy allied together to carve up the corpse of the empire probably would have came true.

There's also the fact that while US was willing to back the UK to fight the Germans, the same wasn't true of the USSR.

Okay great ussr joins the axis . How long is that going to last, hitler isn't going to last very long or someone. Does some damn good persuading.

But let's say they do, the ussr gets stronger. Germany gets some win but it's not the win the expected . Someone will turn on someone at some point and the longer it goes the mkre disadvantage to Germany .

I will settle up and say bu 1945 or so it won't matter

 

[RousseauX]

Okay great ussr joins the axis . How long is that going to last, hitler isn't going to last very long or someone. Does some damn good persuading.

But let's say they do, the ussr gets stronger. Germany gets some win but it's not the win the expected . Someone will turn on someone at some point and the longer it goes the mkre disadvantage to Germany .

I will settle up and say bu 1945 or so it won't matter

Whether the alliance go up to 1945 or 1950 or break apart in 1943 is irrelevant, the British under Churchill aren't going to do something super-stupid to drive the USSR into the Nazi camp after the fall of France

 

[Histor32]

Whether the alliance go up to 1945 or 1950 or break apart in 1943 is irrelevant, the British under Churchill aren't going to do something super-stupid to drive the USSR into the Nazi camp after the fall of France

not saying they wouldn't.. isn't my thread either but to play along that's what I got..

Tricky part so lets say the allies ramp up the propaganda against the soviets after Poland - since well after all they did invade Poland as well. then the winter war and finland.

So let say they burn a lot of bridges before france.. Hitler for some odd reason that I have yet to hear cuts a deal with Stalin that is enough to make him join the axis. ( not sure what that would be since hitler wanted the east not the west. )

it would be a totally different war obviously, but at some point something crazy is going to go on in between the axis powers

 

[Byzantine fanatic]

The conflict ends in a crushing Soviet victory

There is a problem. When Turkey declared war on the Axis powers in February, 1945, Turkey's president Inönü negotiated assurances on financial and military aid for Turkey, as well as a guarantee that the United States and the United Kingdom would stand beside Turkey in case of a Soviet invasion of the Turkish Straits after the war.

 

[Whiteshore]

What would Stalin call the city? Constantinople? Keep it Istanbul? Rename it after himself?

 

[NiGHTS]

What would Stalin call the city? Constantinople? Keep it Istanbul? Rename it after himself?

If he does rename, which I don't see a reason for as this isn't the Russian Empire, he'd probably name it after himself or some other big figure in Marxism, such as Marx. But, really I find him renaming it to be really unlikely as the religious connotations of renaming Istanbul to Constantinople hold no meaning for the Soviet Union.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

Guys, the OP states “middle to latter part of 40s”, that’s not WW2, that’s early Cold War. There is no doubt that the USSR could do it militarily, but it’d be risking a war with the US they do not want.

 

[Wolttaire]

By the time the war started to reach it conclusion Germany inaccessible and they withdraw all there troops