Soviet bloc COIN aircraft

Khanzeer

Banned
When we look at the designs that came out of Soviet aircraft companies post 1945 and in inventory of VVS there is a notable absence of piston engined COIN/CAS aircraft

Assume the Soviets kept some ww2 era planes in service till late 60s in that role , which aircraft would be best suited?
Pe-2 ? And or IL-2/10 ?
WHAT kind of modifications they would need to carry heavier warloads and keep them viable till 60s?
 
Was there a requirement for it? Soviets seemed to do pretty well with just steamrolling over anything with massive force and then arresting/deporting anyone who looked at them funny as brutally as possible in their insurgencies, which worked pretty well as their insurgencies didn't tend to be located in rural countries dominated by mountains or jungle. There didn't really seem to be a need for the sort of air cover the Americans needed in Vietnam with the exception of Afghanistan where the MI-24 and other helicopters seemed to serve admirably.
 
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When we look at the designs that came out of Soviet aircraft companies post 1945 and in inventory of VVS there is a notable absence of piston engined COIN/CAS aircraft

Assume the Soviets kept some ww2 era planes in service till late 60s in that role , which aircraft would be best suited?
Pe-2 ? And or IL-2/10 ?
WHAT kind of modifications they would need to carry heavier warloads and keep them viable till 60s?

The PRC used a Tu-4 as gunship in Tibet during the late ‘50s, the 23mm guns were used for air to ground. There was also an attempt to re-engine the Strumoviks with radial engines from the Tu-4 to operate at higher Himalayan altitudes. The insurgency ended and the project was cancelled.

The Soviets never cared for prop COIN aircraft. They did have a jet powered Il-10 replacement in the Il-40. This cancelled project was later resurrected and greatly improved as the Il-102 which lost out to the simpler Su-25.

In Afghanistan they could easily have built an AC-130U analogue using the An-12, or An-24/26 if they desired a smaller aircraft. Although these would be turboprop powered and may not meet your piston aircraft requirement.

Was there a requirement for it? Soviets seemed to do pretty well with just steamrolling over anything with massive force and then arresting/deporting anyone who looked at them funny as brutally as possible in their insurgencies, which worked pretty well as their insurgencies didn't tend to be located in rural countries dominated by mountains or jungle. There didn't really seem to be a need for the sort of air cover the Americans needed in Vietnam with the exception of Afghanistan where the MI-24 and other helicopters seemed to serve admirably.

Perhaps they can give it to their clients like the Sandinistas and the Ethiopians during the Ogaden War.
 
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Well in 1984 GDR ordered in Czechoslovakia redesign of successful agricultural plane Zlin Z-37 Cmelak (Bumblbee) as light attack plane. One prototype was built in 1985, capable to carry 2 250 kg bombs or other armaments under the wings. Project was canceled and airplane was found in Hungary in 1916 and now is after reconstruction part of Kunovice museum.


Zlin Z-37 Turbo Military.
20170624_120045_170624-152304_rez.jpg
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Was there a requirement for it? Soviets seemed to do pretty well with just steamrolling over anything with massive force and then arresting/deporting anyone who looked at them funny as brutally as possible in their insurgencies, which worked pretty well as their insurgencies didn't tend to be located in rural countries dominated by mountains or jungle. There didn't really seem to be a need for the sort of air cover the Americans needed in Vietnam with the exception of Afghanistan where the MI-24 and other helicopters seemed to serve admirably.
For smaller wars of their client states like mentioned above
Would be used even in the CW role if you fit them with dispenser tanks
 

Derek Pullem

Kicked
Donor
Are the armed Mi 17/24 helos better COIN aircraft than piston engined planes ? Why not ?
I think this is the real reason why COIN aircraft aren't favoured in Russian military - why would you when you have some of the most heavily armoured helos to do the same job. Suspect it was only range that prompted them to look at gunships in Syria.
 
Well in 1984 GDR ordered in Czechoslovakia redesign of successful agricultural plane Zlin Z-37 Cmelak (Bumblbee) as light attack plane. One prototype was built in 1985, capable to carry 2 250 kg bombs or other armaments under the wings. Project was canceled and airplane was found in Hungary in 1916 and now is after reconstruction part of Kunovice museum.


Zlin Z-37 Turbo Military.
20170624_120045_170624-152304_rez.jpg

Forget the plane, who invented the time machine? :p
 
The one plane that comes close to filling the role of a COIN aircraft is the Tupolev Tu-91, problem was that it was canceled after Khrushchev didn't take kindly to it; if only perhaps he took a second opinion on it somewhere.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
I think this is the real reason why COIN aircraft aren't favoured in Russian military - why would you when you have some of the most heavily armoured helos to do the same job. Suspect it was only range that prompted them to look at gunships in Syria.
what about speed ? and payload ?
can mi-17 mi-24 carry more weapons than even T-28 trojan ? and are they not more expensive

Why can they not reproduce a Pe-2 version with 2 man crew, nose guns and 4000 lb payload ?
 
American experience in Afghanistan and Iraq shows attack helicopters are extremely limited for COIN due to lack of range, endurance, payload, reaction time, maintainability. IOW if they are not down for repairs an attack helicopter may arrive too late after a long slow flight and then not have the fuel to stick around. That is why B-1Bs ended up doing COIN and a requirement for single engine turboprops came about.

Attack helicopters are best suited for escorting air assaults, not doing on call air support for troops in contact.
 
5000 payload ? can it hang bombs and rockets under its wings ? and employ them in combat ?
DC-3 has an 8300 pound payload rating, so call an AN-2 a 60% AC-47

So that's roughly 2 miniguns and 13,000 rounds of ammo, and around 20 knots slower.

That's still useful befor madpads show up
 
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