Sovetsky Soyuz, how long to build?

[Cryhavoc101]

Cryhavoc,

In my opinion any Soviet capital ship laid down in a treaty country that late is never going to see Soviet service. It will be appropriated by the building country when the international situation deteriorates.

But I was referring to weasel_airlift's earlier idea where he said:



If the Soviets are going to get a battleship from a foreign yard to copy, they're going to have to do it early enough to actually have the ship delivered. The early '30s would be ideal in my opinion, but it would be treaty limited when built by any of the signatories.




As I recall, the escalator clause was invoked in two parts, the US first (March?) notifying Britain (and France, IIRC) that it was going to 16in guns, then later (April?) notifying it was going to 45,000 tons. But even with the escalator clause, the North Carolinas, South Dakotas and Iowas are still treaty designs.

Certainly had they been completed the Sovietsky Soyuz class would have been outside the treaty limits, and like Bismarck, an inefficient use of tonnage.



Quite true, but also within the limits of their industry. The Obukhov works were still having trouble producing big guns and mountings, and as pointed out, turbines and reduction gears would likely have delayed the ships.

Regards,

Fair enough and yes to all

 

[thaddeus]

Of course, if Stalin commissioned Germany to do it, I'd say there would be a fair chance that the ship would be flying German colors. Which would make for a fun timeline.

True, but that's also a lot of steel won't be turned into tanks....

To even get this ship finished, there is no Barbarossa on schedule. Also, I imagine that Stalin will be providing at least some of the raw steel, since reasonably enough, Germany's own needs come first.

the whole concept is the most foolish possible use of Soviet time and resources, so Germany should have leapt at the chance to encourage it!

maybe it would prompt an early version of M-R Pact, say in 1936 after Japan declined joining the initial Anti-Comintern Pact?

just based on what KM built historically, while dealing with competing demands for steel and other resources? they might have been able to construct 4 BBs for the Soviets and 5 Admiral Hipper-class (sized) ships for themselves? (with the Soviets shipping them raw materials)

 

[Luminous]

Add to that, a second of the class had many defective rivets (Substandard quality, significantly so). Honestly, the entire project was plagued with almost a ludicrous degree of incompetence.

Honestly, they'd be best off doing what the Japanese did with Kongo. Order one from Britain/Germany/USA, and then attempt to make others on the plans, with the one that you have serving a model. Granted, Stalin wanted 15 of them (!) and I think that is always out of reach.

Gibbs and Cox had a few offers for the Soviets that were turned down, including a 70,000 ton hybrid battleship carrier.

EDIT: Clarification: it was from 45-80k tons, the various proposals, and the deal fell through after the Soviet invasion of Finland according to the source I have. I'm not sure that the timeline is square, though, as it's being run through google translate.

There is one pic, though. Please correct me if this belonged to a different project.