Southern Roman Empire

1) Could a north-south partition of the empire work better than an east-west one?

2) Something on the lines of Rome-or-Costaninople vs Carthage-or-Alexandria?
any other candidates?

3) Advantages (if any)/disadvantages respect to OTL partition?

4) which way would Syria go?

5) Any idea to reach this point without subverting Actium?
maybe Gordian?
 
Pretty sure we have had this question before.

The north gets all the border troubles and none of the richness of the southern trade so the north is screwed royally.
 
The north gets all the border troubles and none of the richness of the southern trade so the north is screwed royally.

If Syria goes South (which is reasonable if Alexandria is the Southern capital), the South has to manage Persia, thus relieving the pressure on the north.

Regarding richness, sure, Egypt is south, but north has 2/3 of the empire population (including the rich Asia province -anatolian coastline-) as well as the most of the "legion producing" region
 
The main disadvantage is that the north would be far larger than the south, but still the North gets all the problems(unless you give Syria to the south, in which case they have the Parthians to deal with), in a manner that does not balance/cancel out the power gap between the two empires.
All it would do is creating a weaker Roman empire to deal with all the troubles.
 
mailinutile2 said:
1) Could a north-south partition of the empire work better than an east-west one?

2) Something on the lines of Rome-or-Costaninople vs Carthage-or-Alexandria?
any other candidates?

3) Advantages (if any)/disadvantages respect to OTL partition?

4) which way would Syria go?

5) Any idea to reach this point without subverting Actium?
maybe Gordian?

1) That depends what goes to the Northern Roman Empire and what goes to the Southern Roman Empire.

Also the division will try to be equal in size such as were the Western and Eastern Roman Empires in OTL : the South would probably get North Africa, Cyprus and the the Middeast provinces up to southern Turkey while the North gets the rest.
But if you look at it, the North doesn't get as much richness as the South and gets all the Barbarians while the South has safer border (except the Persian one), so it won't be a truly equal partition.

In this scenario, the North would collapse fastly, even if it holds most of the Legions : there are too many Germanic tribes going south and the Huns are going to do much damage when they'll come.

So my answer is that it won't work much better but probably worse.

2) Rome was no longer the Imperial Capital when the Partition took place if I'm not wrong : it was replaced by Ravenna in the West and Constantinople in the East.

In a North/South Division, Rome might stay as the Northern Capital. If it is not chosen, Constantinople would be the Northern Capital. Ravenna would be a third candidate but it has far less chances in my opinion.

As for the Southern Capital, Carthage and Alexandria are both possible candidates. Carthage holds the advantages of being close to Rome but it would be ironic for the Romans to choose the capital of Hannibal as theirs... As for Alexandria, it is a rich city but it is far too close from Persia.

3) See 1)

4) Probably to the Southern Roman Empire to make both Empire equal in sizes and relieve the Persian border of the North.

5) Currently, no.
 
Yes, this has been discussed here.

Basically, a North-South divide doesn't make any sense, and obviously so for anybody involved (a Roman emperor or magister militum, say).

In addition to the arguments already mentioned, it doesn't serve the primary function of OTL's divisions: Shorten the communication lines to the capital.
 
In addition to the arguments already mentioned, it doesn't serve the primary function of OTL's divisions: Shorten the communication lines to the capital.

True. Geography should be the main point against such a divide.

Note also that if the whole of Africa ends in one part, then the small coastal strip of Libya separates the rich region around Carthago Nova and Egyptus, probably the center of the south as already mentiond. Not that practical.
 
I just have an observation on this particular discussion. I see a lot of discussion over the riches of the south versus the barbarian problems of the north. The North was quite rich as well but it did have the problems with the barbarians (which I will grant those arguing that point). Gaul, Spain and Britain (Spain especially) were where the Romans mined a lot of their metals. Granted that agricultural technology was below that of the High Middle Ages, the farmers in Spain, Britain and Gaul were self sufficient and there were a lot cities in those three provinces. I realize I'm just arguing the west, but that's my primary area of interest and knowledge, and I don't buy the idea of a North/South split either. It's really not viable in the long run and even it happens I see an east/west split eventually (similar to the tetrachy) at some point. The regions are just too culturally different. I could also see a roman empire surviving in africa, holding onto the Levant as well, while barbarian kingdoms hold the north. Basically the east/west split was also a cultural split as well and is going to happen regardless unless you change the basic cultures. Economics makes the east and south the richer of the two during the period of the roman empire. Resources make the North ultimately the richer of the two in the long run.
 
The Romans weren't too much interested in indigenous (non-Hellenistic) cultures.
Btw, culture is often ignored even today when it comes to administrational and military subdivisions - as one such the imperial divide has to be considered.
 
What would happen to Sicily?

It would get fought over royally - this would be uber punic resurrection

For all that, I dont think it dooms the North - after all the Carolingians managed to prosper and Byznatium after losing Egypt did well for some time too.

Merge those too, whilst the South is basically Carthage+Egypt

What if Persia took Syria to create a buffer between them?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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