Southern-Less USA 2.0: A Nation Torn Apart

Could it be possible for the rump United States to adopt a more federalist government structure? It seems plausible that they could look at the high amount of state autonomy and decide that that was the problem. They could de-emphasize the state's powers or even completely disestablish them. The New England states are too small to go on their own and New York would be prominent in any case.

What do you mean disestablishing states, which states has the Rump USA disestablished. The Rump USA consists of New York and New England btw.

I was responding to the above post.
 
Interesting timeline, I will watch this as the breakup of the USA is like a car crash in progress... cannot look away!

Some Indian run states would be good to read about.
The NW Territories going independent would be a nice twist I think.

How would the loss of the US effect British policy in India and the relationship with the Princely states?

I would be suprised if the OTL statelines remained the same for long ITTL, you might need an alternative map without the lines on soon!
 
Interesting timeline, I will watch this as the breakup of the USA is like a car crash in progress... cannot look away!

Some Indian run states would be good to read about.
The NW Territories going independent would be a nice twist I think.

How would the loss of the US effect British policy in India and the relationship with the Princely states?

I would be suprised if the OTL statelines remained the same for long ITTL, you might need an alternative map without the lines on soon!
Well, as far as the crashing and burning goes, something may emerge from the ashes...or maybe not. I do recall the British wanting the make an Indian Buffer state out of the Northwest Territory OTL, particularly emphasizing the capture of what became Michigan. Now the British will have some competition between Virginia, Pennsylvania, and even the Rump USA for the Northwest Territory since it's all in dispute rn. An independent Northwest Territory is probably unlikely but not out of the cards. As far as the loss of the USA goes, it's no different than OTL. Maybe things change slightly with the Princely states since the rump USA is the most staunchly pro-British part of independent North America around 1800 or so. I'm not much of an expert at British policy in India at this time, especially with the Princely States. With the state boundaries, we'll be seeing one major change in the south soon as indicated by the map so anything is possible for state borders. I appreciate your comment overall and thank you for your support.
 
Here is a follow-up poll to the Louisiana Question with the Top 2 Answers from the first poll. Granted, I don't think Spain could control Louisiana forever but if it wouldn't give it to the United States IOTL then there's no way the partitioned remnants of it ITTL could grab it.
 
Chapter Six: The Politics of Late Eighteenth-Century America
Chapter Six: The Politics of Late Eighteenth-Century America

606px-Treaty_of_Greenville.jpg

Under the Treaty of Paris, Great Britain officially ceded to the USA control of the Northwest Territory, occupied by numerous Native American tribes even though the British kept forts there and supported pro-Amerindian Policies there (allowing trading weapons for fur for instance). What became known as Ohio was subject to overlapping and conflicting claims by the states of Virginia, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, and native Amerian tribes like the Shawnee and Lenape that were part of the Northwest Confederacy. Many tribal leaders refused to recognize American claims to the land north and west of the Ohio River. Meanwhile, in order to stabilize its currency and pay off some war debt, the Land Ordinance of 1785 was created to encourage land speculators, surveyors, and settlers who sought to claim new lands. In the eastern part of what became Ohio country, the Treaty of Fort McIntosh was negotiated in 1785 with several Native tribes. Settlers from Connecticut soon created the Western Reserve. Furthermore, the Northwest Ordinance of 1787, passed by the US Congress of the Confederation, encouraged a bigger influx of settlers in the area north of the Ohio River. Local ambushes and engagements (including a raid of the Shawnee by Kentucky militia under General Benjamin Logan in 1786) settlers and Natives worsened. This problem was only exacerbated by the failure of the 1789 Treaty of Fort Harmar and underestimating the cooperation of the tribes within the Northwest Confederacy.

In the mid-to-late 1780s, raids on both sides of the Ohio River resulted in approximately 1,500 casualties of American settlers. In 1790, Congress ordered state militias from Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts to launch an offensive campaign into Shawnee and Miami lands. In October 1790, a force of nearly 1,500 men was assembled near present-day Fort St. Mary’s. However, Josiah Harmar committed only 400 of those men under the command of Kentuckian Colonel John Hardin to attack 1,100 Native warriors, and Hardin was handily defeated. By the summer of 1791, President George Washington ordered Major General Arthur St. Clair to mount a far more vigorous campaign, even though the troops had received little training beforehand. On November 4, a force of 2,000 Natives overwhelmed the Americans and slaughtered more than two-thirds of the 920 troops. Following the Tragedy of St. Clair, George Washington ordered General Anthony Wayne to take command of the forces and turn them into a well-trained unit. At the site of St. Clair’s defeat, Fort Recovery was built following extensive training and a number of advances into Native lands. It was attacked unsuccessfully in June 1794. After, Wayne’s Legion advanced deeper into the land held by the Wabash Confederacy. Ultimately, Native forces were defeated at the Battle of Fallen Timbers in August 1794. In 1795, the Treaty of Greensville finalized American dominance over the Northwest.

While the Indian Wars and settlement of the frontier was a major concern for the fragile United States, the primary political concern was how to keep the nation stable. In 1790, George Washington was unanimously chosen to serve as the first president of the United States due to his status as the commander of the Contentinal Army during the War of American Independence. A Bill of Rights was proposed on December 15, 1791, and was ratified on January 14, 1794, to ease those who feared a strong national government. Meanwhile, there were two key political factions: the Federalists and anti-Federalists. The first group argued that in order for the USA to survive, it needed a firm national government to drive its economy (driven by mercantilism and manufacturing) and to promote justice and fairness. They were based mostly out of New York, New England, and cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore. The latter was included farmers and small landowners who believed the future rested on agriculture and that political power should rest with the states instead of the national government. They were based mostly out of the southernmost states and the Appalachians where ruralism prevailed. Tensions led to much fighting, with Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson having a feud that would symbolize the rivalry between the two groups. Unfortunately, none of this would matter in the end, as the United States of America became consumed by rife, warfare, and eventual secession.

In the 1790s, no state was undergoing an identity crisis as big as North Carolina was while it was debating its own future. Western settlers complained of lacking wealth, their distance from the state government, and the influence of the coastal elite, who included rich planters, lawyers, and merchants. They disagreed with the commoners on the level of freedom and democracy that should be accepted, while commoners resented the federal government trying to possess so much power. Political polarization spilled over to other areas such as where the location of the state capital should be, and residents of eight counties in the Blue Ridge mountains trying to create their own state called Franklin. This attempt failed but none of the sentiment behind it went away. In 1792, as the seeds of the Whiskey War were being planted, Alexander Hamilton demanded that military action be used to put down, but Edmund Randolph of Virginia rejected such measure. In any case, tensions built up to the point that the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina became one of the biggest hot spots for the rebellion outside of Pennsylvania and western Virginia. This was supported by Herman Husband of Bedford County drafting a resolution at Whiskey Point. The last straw came during the campaign for the 1796 presidential election when John Adams promised to make it a crime to libel or slander the government. This caused North Carolina to secede, encouraged by politician Nathaniel Macon, but this would trigger a civil war of its own.
 
Author's Note:
1) Fort St. Mary's = OTL Fort Wayne, IN.
2) Sorry for the long wait. When I originally conceived this chapter, I planned on Europe taking about half of it and hence I was struggling to do some research about the effects of no America Revolution on Europe. At the last minute, I decided that Europe would make an excellent chapter by itself so I deleted the sections about Europe here. I'm also doing research about it, particularly in the Netherlands and Belgium where there were attempted Revolutions at the same time the French Revolution began in 1789 IOTL.
 
Author's Note:
1) Fort St. Mary's = OTL Fort Wayne, IN.
2) Sorry for the long wait. When I originally conceived this chapter, I planned on Europe taking about half of it and hence I was struggling to do some research about the effects of no America Revolution on Europe. At the last minute, I decided that Europe would make an excellent chapter by itself so I deleted the sections about Europe here. I'm also doing research about it, particularly in the Netherlands and Belgium where there were attempted Revolutions at the same time the French Revolution began in 1789 IOTL.
What do you think would be the fate of the Ohio territory after America's collapse? I like the idea of them attempting to stay in the union before declaring independence out of necessity. Bonus irony points if the stranded Americans have to ally with the natives to fend off opportunists trying to annex territory.
 
What do you think would be the fate of the Ohio territory after America's collapse? I like the idea of them attempting to stay in the union before declaring independence out of necessity. Bonus irony points if the stranded Americans have to ally with the natives to fend off opportunists trying to annex territory.
The most likely scenario imo is when there enough states seceded from the Union the seceded states will try to grab parts of the Northwest Territory for themselves, with or without European intervention.
 
The most likely scenario imo is when there enough states seceded from the Union the seceded states will try to grab parts of the Northwest Territory for themselves, with or without European intervention.
I’m guessing that a large portion of it stays with America and at least one attempted land grab fails. I’m looking forward to reading more.
 
I absolutely promise that Europe will be the focus of the next chapter, after making the unfortunate decision to cut it out from this one.
 
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