South German Confederation?

This has probably come up before, but the search isn't working for me ATM.

Is it possible to get a 'South German Confederation' consisting of Bavaria, Baden and Württemberg formed sometime during the 19th century?

I'm thinking that it would probably be a relatively liberal, modern state with good relations with France and Britain and opposing Austria and possibly Prussia (or some Prussian-led state), but I may (make that probably) be wrong.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Honestly the best way are to let the Wittelbach inherited Baden in 1819 they was close to it in OTL, it would them a connection with Pfalz. Württemberg and Bavaria late for a short periode before they joined the Zollverein their own custom union. If they for some reason are kept out, they could focus on close corporation, of course it would also help if Bavaria avoid Ludwig II, and if Austria support the close co-operation between the two states.
 

Susano

Banned
Well, after Prussia broke up the German Confederation and foudned the North German Confederation as a sorta Uber-Prussia, they offered the three smaller South German states (Bavaria, Württemberg and Baden that is) to form a South German Confederation, but they had no interest in doing so.

Its true that such a state would be politically more liberal than Prussia/the NGC, but OTOH there eventually would be massive pressure on both sides by the population to unite...
 
Well, after Prussia broke up the German Confederation and foudned the North German Confederation as a sorta Uber-Prussia, they offered the three smaller South German states (Bavaria, Württemberg and Baden that is) to form a South German Confederation, but they had no interest in doing so.

Its true that such a state would be politically more liberal than Prussia/the NGC, but OTOH there eventually would be massive pressure on both sides by the population to unite...

In that case you need some reason for them not to unite. For example if the South German Confederation becomes a democracy, while the northern one stays a monarchistical oligarchy, the people living in the south will not want to join with their northern brothers, while the people of the North German Confederation won't be able to join with the south. If that situation continues long enough seperate identities form and there won't be a union.
 
I had thought about that before too.The North German Confederation was probably 85 percent Protestant,whereas in South Germany,Catholics make up 65-75 percent of the population.So that might be a wedge to create a separate state there.But I,on the other hand had wanted to include Austria and German Switzerland as well.Culturally,religiously,historically,and dialect,they have a lot in common.For years there had been talk of a union ,they just never did go beyond talk.The major problem I see was the Wittlesbach Dynasty in Bavaria.But there was a way out there too.In the 18th century there had been talk of the trading of Bavaria for Bohemia,where the Wittlesbach's had an historic interest (they did that type of thing then).That would have given the Habsburg's,German Bavaria instead of Czech Bohemia.Leading to more stability in the Habsburg Empire,and giving the Czechs a King who could become more attuned to their interests and not be in a multinational Empire where they always would be a minority.The other main problem would be Hungary.But there would be two possible solutions available there.Hungary many times tried to break away from Habsburg rule.The most successful was in 1848,until the Russian Empire came to the aid of the Habsburg's and crushed their revolt.Well,what if the Tsar hadn't come to their aid,then Hungary could have broken away.That could be solution one.Solution two is just what took place,becoming Austria-Hungary,the dual monarchy.That would have been more as the agreement was thought of anyway.More of a German Austria as united to the Magyar Hungary.I myself favor solution one,but that's maybe just me.For over a century there had been a debate in the Dynasty as to whether German Austria,as it was know,was a part of Germany or did its best interests lay in a multinational state.I think history proved they made the wrong choice.
 
Honestly the best way are to let the Wittelbach inherited Baden in 1819 they was close to it in OTL, it would them a connection with Pfalz.
They were not, in fact, close to it, and it would have gone against the foreign policies of both Austria and Prussia to permit the Bavarians to annex Baden (something Baden changed its own constitution to prevent, mind). I don't see it happening under any realistic circumstances.
 
In a France-wins-the-Franco-Prussian-War timeline, they may seek to divide Germany, and thus create a SGF.
 
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