South American Indian sports

Hey for my "Libertad o Muerte" TL I'm looking for some sports played by the indigenous people of south america.

Which sports were played by the Incas/Mapuche/Guarani/Quechua/Aimara?

I'm looking for a competitive team sport, something along the lines of Lacross. And are there more detailed infos about the mezo-american ball game as wiki gives us?
 
The Mayans and or the Aztecs played a ball game, they built big stadiums for it and all. However I think the losers were killed after the game.
 

Hendryk

Banned
There's a pretty good Wikipedia article about mesoamerican ball games. I could see them being modernized and becoming regular spectator sports.
 
I can't provide you great help, but the Mapuche had (and have) a sport called Chueca similar to the Hockey played over grass.

chueca%20%28Palin%29%20museo%20historico%20nacional.jpg


I have found this web about the question, well documented and explained, but unfurtunately it's in spanish. Maybe later I can write a summary of the rules

OTOH, I don't know what are you planning for your TL, but maybe, with the appropriate technological development, figures like the chasqui could become outdated and their activity perpetuated as sport. Some sort of andean marathon.

Ans returning to the Mapuche, it's said that one of the challenges to elect the toki (militar leader) was to drag a big log during 24 hours. Also, it could become sport with the time in an alternative history.
 
The Mayans and or the Aztecs played a ball game, they built big stadiums for it and all. However I think the losers were killed after the game.
Usually no. Mostly it was just played for fun or for prizes. People liked to bet a lot on it. Betting everything from clothes, to houses, to themselves, as in slavery.
 
Thanks for the input so far.

As I understand it no one really knows how the Aztecs/Mayans have played their ballgames (which would be essential in turning it into a modern sport). Furthermore I need something from southern America and not Mezo-America.

The Mapuch sport of Chueca is close to what I'm looking for. a short summary of the spanish description would be awesome.
 
In Brazil the Tupi had the Peteca game. Nowadays it seem like tennis played with hands rather than racket, but originally it didn't have the net between the players.
 
Thanks for the input so far.

As I understand it no one really knows how the Aztecs/Mayans have played their ballgames (which would be essential in turning it into a modern sport). Furthermore I need something from southern America and not Mezo-America.
Not in detail, the wiki article said, but the basics are known enough. Besides, most obvious PoD's that will result in it being more popular will also result in more knowledge about Mesoamerican culture.
 
Gonzaga: I think I have too many cultural biases against Peteca. In Germany little kids play this, no offense.

Hresvelgr: My intention was to get some information if the Incas had something similar. Both Maya and Aztecs are very far away from Platinea (Argentina). And the PoD is around 1806 or something alike (but not earlier).

As I'm looking for a competitive (and maybe physical) team sport that becomes a popular sport among 19th century Platinean society (which has a strong european impetus, due to the many immigrants) my best chances so far are with Chueca.

I'm playing around with the idea of Chueca with some 'imported' european sports like Hurling. Something along the following lines:

In the latter half of the 19th century many "stick and ball"-games appeared in Platinea one of them was Chueca which was played for centuries by the indigenous Mapuche people and now got some popularity with the immigrants who settled in Mendoza and northern Patagonia.
Especially the Irish immigrants, which were a large contingent in northern Patagonia (it was the focal point of Irish immigration outside the metropolitan areas on the River Plate and where they conserved their cultural heritage), playing Hurling, grew fond of the Chueca sport and soon the first Irish Hurling teams played against Mapuche Chueca teams.
Due to a lack of general rules most games were a very chaotic sight around the middle of the 19th century.
Though the Irish weren't the only ones who brought there "stick and ball"-game with them from their european homes. So did the Scots, Spaniards, French, Englishmen and Germans. While competitions within uniform neighborhoods were quite common, competitions between neighborhoods were extremely rare due to the different sets of rules.
A preform of the modern sport emerged in the Buenos Aires metropolitan area, especially in the neighborhoods with immigrants from various countries, in the 1860s and 1870s.
In order to play against the University of Buenos Aires students from Tucuman draw a set of rules (which should later be called the "Tucuman-Rules") in 1881 after minor alterations demanded by the students from Buenos Aires the rules were agreed upon. From there on they spread from university to university across the country. Only the southern part of Platinea, not having a university at all, stayed with their Chueca-Hurling rules until the turn of the century.
 

Here the summary of the rules of Chueca. First of all my aplogies for the broken english. My english itself is horrible, and translating and summarizing something about I have not much idea only aggravates it. Añsp, there are parts with differet font, simply because I have copy-pasted the names of the positions from the web (you will understand why) and the forum continues writing in that style.

If you have some doubt, of course, you can ask me.

Oh, the rules in spanish are here.



Chueca or Palin:

It's called chueca in spanish and palin in mapudunguThere are two teams, each one with 15 players and representing a community. Its played on a rectangle divised in two fields. The goal of the game is make the ball cross the short line in the opposition's field using wooden sticks called uño.

The field is called paliwe in mapudungu. Historically the paliwe was about 200-300 mts. long. and 30-50 mts. wide. In 1980, the mapuche indigenous couincil decided that the reglamentary dimensions should be 120 x 12 mts. The lines demarcating the field must be at least 10 cm. and a hole called
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]digñilwe[/FONT] will mark the centre of the field.

At the beggining of the match, the ball is in the cnetral point and the players of the two teams are separated, but not each team on its field (like in football etc) but along an imaginary lengthwise line in the centre of the field.

fig%2006.jpg


A/ a and B / b represent the two different teams. (Source)

The sort lines (goal lines) on the rectangle are called tripalwe, and the long lines katrilwe in mapudungu and atajadoras in spanish. A goal is called tripai (score a point per tripai) . If the ball surpasses the lateral lines (katrilwe) it's called kachi or katri and there is a new kick-off from the centre ([FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Digñilwe)[/FONT].

Apparently, the orientation of the field could have been W-E in ancient times, but nowadays it's irrelevant.

fig%2008.jpg

(source)

The two teams (red and green) and the sudivisions (with imaginary lines) inside the field. (source) At the left of the central player (8) are the attackers (tripalfe or yektal; in spanish atacantes or sacadores). They are the responsables of the kick-off. At its right the deffenders(Katrutüfe; in spanish defensas or atajadores) .



A chueca player is called palife, chuequero or kudefe. The number of players in each time can vary in relation to the size of the field (although the usual are 15 players) but it must be always odd (15, 13, 11... but never 14, 12 etc). If a community has not enough pkayers, they can make alliances with other communities to reach the needed number of players.


The tripalfe are subdivided in the following groups:

Taco or Tacum: They are the closer to the central player (8) and their function is protect the kick-off. Tehy can be a maximum of three.
In order of closeness to the center they are called: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Takumtripalfe, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inalelutakumutripalfe [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wenelelutakumutripalfe[/FONT].
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]Inalelutakumuinapechakatrütu: They must fight for the ball and as it the the forward attackers.

The forward attackers (in spanish delanteros or punteros) also get their name in relation to their closeness to the center: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Inaleluinapechatripalfe, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inapechatripalfe and [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wechuntotripalfe[/FONT]


The defenders or Katrütufe have equivalent names to the attackers:

Closer to the centre (3 palyers): Taco or Takum --> Takukatrütufe, Inalelutakumukatrütufe and Wenelelutakumukatrütufe.

Inalelutakumuinapechakatrütu (1 player) He must might the ball with the attackant Inalelutakumuinapechakatrütuform the other team.

The back players or Wechunto (3 players):
Inaleluinapechakatrütufe, Inapechakatrütufe and Wechunto-katrütufe: Obviously they must avoid the opposition goals.

As you see, every player has correspondent player in the opposite side (attackers with defenders). Every couple of opposite players is called kun. They promise each other gentlemanly play and take the compromise of inviting the other player to their next match.

fig%2011.jpg

Positions and names in spanish and mapudungu. (source)

Forerly, when team scored two goals, there were a change of sides, nowadays, like in football, the change of sides is at the halfime.

Only the attackers play in the opposition's side against the opponent deffenders and vice-versa. For example, if the ball is in the opposite side of your team, your deffenders and opponent atackers must wait in their positions.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
Also, the teams have 9 reserves and a captain. So the complete number of players, including reserves, is 24. When a team decides to make a change, the "new" player must inform the referee. Like in basketball, there is no limit of changes. The captain can talk with the referee bout the interpretation of rules etc (like in football).


The stick, called uño, weno or chueca has about 115-120 cm. (depending on the player height) and a weight of 800 gr. It can be made with several types of wood.

The ball: It's made with wood filled with compessed wool and covered with leather. There is not standard measure, but usually it has 5 cm. of diameter. It's called Pali.

Before the match usually each team taunt the other team crying "we will win ten times".

When the referee sign it, the two central players must shock their sticks, one time down, and two times up, then they can play the ball. They repeat the "ritual" any time the ball is in the center.

Formerly, the mach lasted until one of the teams had and advantage of four goals. Nowadays, if there is a tie, there are penalties shooting, like in football. Nowadays eeru match lasts about 20-30 min. with a halftime of 5-7 min.

Faults: Formerly it was allowed to grab the opposite player, but nowday it's considered fault; It's banned hit an opponent's chueca.; Also,any form of violence is banned, more or less like in foorball, you can't push, tripping etc.


After a matich the winners repeat the taunt "we will win ten times" and do that:

fig%2029.jpg

(source)



As a sidenote, the spectators use to bet during the matchs.

Cheers.
 
Hey for my "Libertad o Muerte" TL I'm looking for some sports played by the indigenous people of south america.

Which sports were played by the Incas/Mapuche/Guarani/Quechua/Aimara?

I'm looking for a competitive team sport, something along the lines of Lacross. And are there more detailed infos about the mezo-american ball game as wiki gives us?

Hey Treppe, are you, well is Excellent see for this place(and looking to information/Material for the TL/AAR), and about the topic... sorry i can help you right now(in my region, Colombia, we killed and destroyed all the native heritage here, i has to do some research....)

well i wish you succes here and keep going with the awesome AAR/TL

Att
Nivek von Beldo

P.S. How than the Original POD of Libertad o Muerte is in 1806(in fact that never was very clear to me thanking away the most interventionist Argentina/Plata against the dominance of Brasil and the later acceptance of the Exiled Carlist King of Spain that rather doublecross rosas and the conservatives..)
 
Hi, another mapuche sport:

Linao:

It's similar to Rugby. It's thought it's originary from the (wonderfully beautiful) island of Chiloe.

Originary it was intended to strengthen the future warriors. The fields usually has 200x60 mtr. with a neutral zone with about 5 mtrs. in the center. It can involve even 100 players.

In every en of the field there is a goal (like in a football ) marked with two posts separed by 2-6 metres.

The referee launchs the ball to the centre of the field and every team tyies to take it. When a pkayer tooks the ball, he keep it under his armpit, and, like in rugby, he try to reach the opposition's goal. He must cross the line with his entire body to score a point.

When in the neutral zone, nobodu can touch the player with the ball.
Outside the neutral zone, anything to snatch the ball from the contrary players is allowed (punchs, kicks, headers etc)


The ball has 15 cm of diametre, made with algae covered with wool and/or leather.

That's all what I know about it at the moment. I hope it's helpfull.

Cheers.

PD: Treppe, has you already posted some part of your TimeLine here or on another site? If yes, where can we read it?
 
Thank you very much Niko!
I just have no time at the moment to do further research into this topic. But in a month things will look better. Linao seems interesting, too. Perhaps I mix it with Chueca would make an even more physical sport. We'll see.
Well it's not a real TL yet but an AAR you can find here: Libertad o Muerte!. Leave a comment if you like it.

Nivek, good to see you, too. But don't tell the others that here's more (experimental) stuff.
Regarding your question, the matter is delicate. In the AAR there is no major PoD it's just how I played the game and somewhere along the road I came up with the idea of putting the carlists into power. But if this would one day become a full fletched TL I'm playing with the idea of Carlos V. going into exile in Buenos Aires after the French conquered Spain. And from there on Carlos and his branch of the bourbons will determine the fate of Platinea.
 

Here the summary of the rules of Chueca. First of all my aplogies for the broken english. My english itself is horrible, and translating and summarizing something about I have not much idea only aggravates it. Añsp, there are parts with differet font, simply because I have copy-pasted the names of the positions from the web (you will understand why) and the forum continues writing in that style.

If you have some doubt, of course, you can ask me.

Oh, the rules in spanish are here.



Chueca or Palin:

It's called chueca in spanish and palin in mapudunguThere are two teams, each one with 15 players and representing a community. Its played on a rectangle divised in two fields. The goal of the game is make the ball cross the short line in the opposition's field using wooden sticks called uño.

The field is called paliwe in mapudungu. Historically the paliwe was about 200-300 mts. long. and 30-50 mts. wide. In 1980, the mapuche indigenous couincil decided that the reglamentary dimensions should be 120 x 12 mts. The lines demarcating the field must be at least 10 cm. and a hole called
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]digñilwe[/FONT] will mark the centre of the field.

At the beggining of the match, the ball is in the cnetral point and the players of the two teams are separated, but not each team on its field (like in football etc) but along an imaginary lengthwise line in the centre of the field.

fig%2006.jpg


A/ a and B / b represent the two different teams. (Source)

The sort lines (goal lines) on the rectangle are called tripalwe, and the long lines katrilwe in mapudungu and atajadoras in spanish. A goal is called tripai (score a point per tripai) . If the ball surpasses the lateral lines (katrilwe) it's called kachi or katri and there is a new kick-off from the centre ([FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Digñilwe)[/FONT].

Apparently, the orientation of the field could have been W-E in ancient times, but nowadays it's irrelevant.

fig%2008.jpg

(source)

The two teams (red and green) and the sudivisions (with imaginary lines) inside the field. (source) At the left of the central player (8) are the attackers (tripalfe or yektal; in spanish atacantes or sacadores). They are the responsables of the kick-off. At its right the deffenders(Katrutüfe; in spanish defensas or atajadores) .



A chueca player is called palife, chuequero or kudefe. The number of players in each time can vary in relation to the size of the field (although the usual are 15 players) but it must be always odd (15, 13, 11... but never 14, 12 etc). If a community has not enough pkayers, they can make alliances with other communities to reach the needed number of players.


The tripalfe are subdivided in the following groups:

Taco or Tacum: They are the closer to the central player (8) and their function is protect the kick-off. Tehy can be a maximum of three.
In order of closeness to the center they are called: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Takumtripalfe, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inalelutakumutripalfe [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wenelelutakumutripalfe[/FONT].
Inalelutakumuinapechakatrütu: They must fight for the ball and as it the the forward attackers.

The forward attackers (in spanish delanteros or punteros) also get their name in relation to their closeness to the center: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Inaleluinapechatripalfe, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inapechatripalfe and [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wechuntotripalfe[/FONT]


The defenders or Katrütufe have equivalent names to the attackers:

Closer to the centre (3 palyers): Taco or Takum --> Takukatrütufe, Inalelutakumukatrütufe and Wenelelutakumukatrütufe.

Inalelutakumuinapechakatrütu (1 player) He must might the ball with the attackant Inalelutakumuinapechakatrütuform the other team.

The back players or Wechunto (3 players):
Inaleluinapechakatrütufe, Inapechakatrütufe and Wechunto-katrütufe: Obviously they must avoid the opposition goals.

As you see, every player has correspondent player in the opposite side (attackers with defenders). Every couple of opposite players is called kun. They promise each other gentlemanly play and take the compromise of inviting the other player to their next match.

fig%2011.jpg

Positions and names in spanish and mapudungu. (source)

Forerly, when team scored two goals, there were a change of sides, nowadays, like in football, the change of sides is at the halfime.

Only the attackers play in the opposition's side against the opponent deffenders and vice-versa. For example, if the ball is in the opposite side of your team, your deffenders and opponent atackers must wait in their positions.



Also, the teams have 9 reserves and a captain. So the complete number of players, including reserves, is 24. When a team decides to make a change, the "new" player must inform the referee. Like in basketball, there is no limit of changes. The captain can talk with the referee bout the interpretation of rules etc (like in football).


The stick, called uño, weno or chueca has about 115-120 cm. (depending on the player height) and a weight of 800 gr. It can be made with several types of wood.

The ball: It's made with wood filled with compessed wool and covered with leather. There is not standard measure, but usually it has 5 cm. of diameter. It's called Pali.

Before the match usually each team taunt the other team crying "we will win ten times".

When the referee sign it, the two central players must shock their sticks, one time down, and two times up, then they can play the ball. They repeat the "ritual" any time the ball is in the center.

Formerly, the mach lasted until one of the teams had and advantage of four goals. Nowadays, if there is a tie, there are penalties shooting, like in football. Nowadays eeru match lasts about 20-30 min. with a halftime of 5-7 min.

Faults: Formerly it was allowed to grab the opposite player, but nowday it's considered fault; It's banned hit an opponent's chueca.; Also,any form of violence is banned, more or less like in foorball, you can't push, tripping etc.


After a matich the winners repeat the taunt "we will win ten times" and do that:

fig%2029.jpg

(source)



As a sidenote, the spectators use to bet during the matchs.

Cheers.

I might use this in my TL as well.
 
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