South African Relations With A Victorious Nazi Germany

ben0628

Banned
What would relations between the Apartheid government in South Africa and Nazi Germany be like post World War Two? Could you see South Africa joining the Axis or at least allying with them?
 
Relations between the two countries could easily be positive, given Afrikaner Germanophilia, but much depends on what happens to the Commonwealth and South Africa's position within it.

Is there an Anglo-German cold war? Has the Commonwealth broken apart entirely? What is the world like?

Perhaps most critically, what does Germany want with South Africa-controlled Southwest Africa? I can imagine a situation where South African whites might be inclined towards a German alliance but this inclination might be wrecked by Germany's desire to reclaim its African colony.
 
I could see the SA government trying to play both sides off (perhaps get concessions out of the US by threatening to give basing rights to the KM)
 

ben0628

Banned
Relations between the two countries could easily be positive, given Afrikaner Germanophilia, but much depends on what happens to the Commonwealth and South Africa's position within it.

Is there an Anglo-German cold war? Has the Commonwealth broken apart entirely? What is the world like?

Perhaps most critically, what does Germany want with South Africa-controlled Southwest Africa? I can imagine a situation where South African whites might be inclined towards a German alliance but this inclination might be wrecked by Germany's desire to reclaim its African colony.

I believe South Africa left the Commonwealth after declaring itself a republic. Also a Nazi victory probably means a bankrupted Britain who cant hold onto her colonies. South Africa could sell Southwest Africa (Nambia) to the Germans in return for military supplies.

Also South Africa could possibly try to unite Rhodesia and Botswana into a Greater South Africa if Britain is weak and unable to interfere
 
Whilst the Afrikaners where of mostly Germanic descent, that doesn't mean they woud support the nazis. There was a huge difference between the national party which governed a democracy and the nazis who were obviously far more extreme. And then you of course have English South Africans and liberally minded Afrikaners such as Smuts,So I think an alliance is unlikely even if SA leave the commonwealth.
 
Just because the Afrikaners are racist doesn't mean they'd buddy up to Germany, although I can imagine some will. The Afrikaners are also very staunch Calvinists, and if there are Nazi anti-Christian excesses (real or imagined), that could alienate them.

"What? You want us to work with some godless heathen who sacrificed some Russian hostages to Odin?"
 
Just because the Afrikaners are racist doesn't mean they'd buddy up to Germany, although I can imagine some will. The Afrikaners are also very staunch Calvinists, and if there are Nazi anti-Christian excesses (real or imagined), that could alienate them.

"What? You want us to work with some godless heathen who sacrificed some Russian hostages to Odin?"

As I said, it would be more likely for them to play off both the major blocs, "You are going to impose sanctions on us? Fine, we'll just let the Kriegsmarine set up a base in Windhoek!"
 
Brits only controlled Southern Africa (Rhodesia, Republic of South Africa, etc.) for a half century. They ousted Afrikans-speaking Boers (Dutch descent) during the late 19th century, but lost control after WW2. Part of the reason they lost control of South Africa was too many casualties among some of the English-speaking SA elite.
 
Entirely depends on how Germany won. Did they invade London and dismantle the UK? Did they win a grudging peace in the West (and then invaded the USSR)? Did they beat the USSR and then enter a cold war with the USA and UK?
 
Whilst the Afrikaners where of mostly Germanic descent, that doesn't mean they woud support the nazis. There was a huge difference between the national party which governed a democracy and the nazis who were obviously far more extreme.

Not quite so obviously. The apartheid project, which saw the attempt to transform the majority of the population into a subordinate population of workers on racial-religious-nationalist grounds, has more than a few similarities to what the Nazis hoped to achieve.

And then you of course have English South Africans and liberally minded Afrikaners such as Smuts,So I think an alliance is unlikely even if SA leave the commonwealth.

Alliances of convenience are entirely possible, especially if South Africa lurches into apartheid and finds the Commonwealth in opposition.

Much depends on how Nazi Germany is seen, and on the nature of the victory. A nominally Christian powerhouse dedicated to holding off the Bolsheviks is going to be much more attractive than a neo-pagan imperialist wanting old territory.
 
Brits only controlled Southern Africa (Rhodesia, Republic of South Africa, etc.) for a half century. They ousted Afrikans-speaking Boers (Dutch descent) during the late 19th century, but lost control after WW2. Part of the reason they lost control of South Africa was too many casualties among some of the English-speaking SA elite.

What?

The history of South Africa is far more complex than that. And the UK didn't 'lose control' of South Africa after WWII - the fairly anti-British National Party won the 1948 election. And I don't think it had anything to do wth 'casualties' among the English-speaking elite.

Rhodesia was never controlled by Boers, either.
 
wasn't (vague) plan for Germany to retain Belgian Congo? (could see them wanting Tanzania, formerly German East Africa, to span across Africa?)

that would probably only be feasible with some collaboration from SA and Portugal?
 
wasn't (vague) plan for Germany to retain Belgian Congo? (could see them wanting Tanzania, formerly German East Africa, to span across Africa?)

that would probably only be feasible with some collaboration from SA and Portugal?

A Mittelafrika?

The idea of a surviving Nazi Germany is problematic enough for me that a Nazi Germany intent on directly annexing large portons of Africa seems almost ASBish. How is Nazi Germany going to have the resources necessary to sustain an African colonial effort, especially if it's busily remaking central and eastern Europe.

On reflection, I think it relatively unlikely that Germany will pursue an African empire. If this is the case, particularly if Nazi Germany accepts the loss of Southwest Africa, then there will be space for an alignment of South Africa towards Germany.
 
In my ten-sided cold war, I posit that the Nazis go generic occult racist pseudo-pagan, while the South Afrikaaners, being good devout Calvinist white supremacists, collaborate with them only nominally and see them as a rival for the control of the continent. Nazis vs. lesser Christian Draka, essentially.
 
Remember, South Africa was at war with Germany.

Yes, but the decision to go to war was a narrow one, the South African Parliament only voted by a margin of 80-67 to go to war, over staying neutral.

And remember, among a number of Afrikaners there was much pro-German sentiment, and some proto-Nazi organisations existed (such as the Ossewa Brandwag and Oswald Pirow's New Order). SA staying neutral is not that far-fetched - explicitly joining the Axis is getting to ASB territory, but who knows what would have happened if Britain had fallen.
 
Top