Something Serious Has Happened on Air Force One (a Tl/story by Geon)

If there's backlash across the country against Dallas, will the rest of the south stay with Dallas , or throw them under the plane?
My guess is that the rest of the south won't b able to disassociate themselves with Dallas.
 
Regarding the KKK - I don't like to toot my own horn. But if some of you are interested in what happened when two KKK members reformed I could recommend for a bit of whimsy the Epilogue/Postscript part of my TL/Story - How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/how-silent-fall-the-cherry-blossoms.280585/

It came about because of my love for the circus: fellow readers I give you The Stars and Bars Thrill Show and Circus!!! (Spoiler: Dr. King in this ATL loved it!)

Go ahead and toot, it's a damn good timeline and story :)

Randy
 
Chapter Ten (contd.) An After Work Conversation

Geon

Donor
Washington, D.C.: 10:00 p.m.; A local bar:

It was after hours, after a very long day and Robert and his chief advisor and aide, Edwin O. Guthman were relaxing with a drink or two at Kennedy’s favorite bar.

The church bombing near Montgomery had generated calls from civil rights leaders for Washington to deal with this immediately. Kennedy had ordered Hoover to send an F.B.I. team to Montgomery no later than the end of the week. J. Edgar Hoover was still in Dallas supervising the investigation of both the assassination and the shootings on Air Force One but had promised to have a team in Montgomery within days.

Taking a sip of scotch Kennedy sighed. “Hoover told me we’ve had our first break in the hunt for Daniel Bradley. A waitress at a Howard Johnson’s in Oklahoma City says she is certain she waited on the man two days after he disappeared. And at least two other customers that were in the restaurant also identified a picture of the man. It’s the first real lead we’ve had on him in almost a week.”

Edwin nodded, “About time we got some good news in all this mess,” he said.

Robert took another sip of his scotch then asked Edwin, “What’s your take on this and Wallace’s reaction. I’m not saying Wallace was behind the bombing, but his rhetoric certainly seems to have been at least partially responsible for it?”

Edwin thought for a moment. Wallace’s reaction to the bombing had been surprising. He had called Washington to ask when an F.B.I. team could be sent to Alabama and promising the full resources of the state would be put in Kennedy’s hands to find those who did this.”

Edwin then sad, “So, on the one hand his rhetoric has been stirring up violence on the other he is anxious to have this case solved. The answer Bobby is politics pure and simple.”

Edwin continued, “With both Jack and L.B.J. gone, the two front-runners who would have likely kept the White House for us in ’64 are gone. Now the field is wide open. Wallace sees a chance to grab the nomination. I doubt he’ll succeed but if he carries enough of the South, he will have enough votes to decide who will be nominated. That means he gets to write the platform and likely dictate policy for the next four years. You know if that happens that any chance for further civil rights legislation is dead until at least ’68.”

“And that will spell trouble,” Kennedy said somberly. “Right now, with King and his people still leading the movement things have stayed relatively peaceful. But if there is no change over the next four years and it is seen Washington is dragging its feet then more violent extremists may well take over the movement like Malcolm X and Stokely Carmichael. And if that happens the term ‘long hot summer’ could take on a whole new meaning in the next four years.”

“On the other hand, you have Governor Connally running. He is portraying himself as the southern moderate. I would call him the anti-Wallace,” said Edwin. Then he shook his head, “Given the situation with the Dallas 25, I don’t see this ending well for him. Texas is very much a law-and-order state and the prosecution of 25 police officers is not going to sit well with the people of Dallas. You saw the coverage of the demonstration earlier today?”

“Yes, and it looks like the crazies are out with the simple honest people and the families of the officers, demanding answers. Answers we can’t give them yet,” Kennedy concluded.

“And it’s those crazies, the extremists on both sides of the color barrier we must watch out for. Groups like the KKK see a Wallace presidency as the means to halt desegregation and other civil rights legislation in their tracks. On the other hand, there are some militant black groups that are willing to take a more violent road to gain those rights and are just waiting for an excuse, like the Montgomery church bombing,” Edwin responded.

“Not a good picture to end the year on,” Kennedy said.

“No sir,” agreed Guthman. Then after a moment he said. “By the way, have you heard, it looks like Senator Humphrey will be declaring his candidacy in the next week or so. News is he’s already forming his election team.”

Kennedy looked mildly surprised. He had been so busy with both the investigations in Dallas and the church bombing he hadn’t had much time for other news. “Do you think he has a chance?

“In the northern industrial states, maybe, in the south, more problematic,” responded Guthman. If he doesn’t carry any of the south, then it depends whether Connally or Wallace do.”

After a moment Edwin Guthman asked, “Are you still planning not to run in ’64?”

Kennedy shook his head. Given the situation in Dallas and this potential time bomb we’ve got ticking near Montgomery I need to give all my energy to trying to keep these little blazes from becoming full-fledged conflagrations. And once my time as Attorney General is done, I intend to turn the office over to whoever wins in ’64. Edwin, after Jack’s death I really need to spend time with my family. I think we are all going to need a four-year breather before I decide when or if I am going to run in ’68.”
 
Last edited:
What about if Hoover contacts Wallace and give him and “his people” a month to find the bombers and deliver them to the feds? Otherwise the FBI will be down there in so many numbers, and for so long, they’d be able to vote in Alabama!

On the plus side for Wallace’s campaign plans, it would increase his “credibility“ in the North, distancing himself from the klan and similar groups, and maybe even get him some slack with the black voters (this might also give the administration some breathing room with rolling out civil rights legislation). Wallace could even throw some shade on the Dallas situation, showing that full cooperation with the federal government in cases of murder at a Federal level (assassination, hate, etc), is the responsibility of all Americans who stand for law and order.

ric350
 
What about if Hoover contacts Wallace and give him and “his people” a month to find the bombers and deliver them to the feds? Otherwise the FBI will be down there in so many numbers, and for so long, they’d be able to vote in Alabama!
Wallace digs up some scapegoats and hands them over.
 

marktaha

Banned
Washington, D.C.: 10:00 p.m.; A local bar:

It was after hours, after a very long day and Robert and his chief advisor and aide, Edwin O. Guthman were relaxing with a drink or two at Kennedy’s favorite bar.

The church bombing near Montgomery had generated calls from civil rights leaders for Washington to deal with this immediately. Kennedy had ordered Hoover to send an F.B.I. team to Montgomery no later than the end of the week. J. Edgar Hoover was still in Dallas supervising the investigation of both the assassination and the shootings on Air Force One but had promised to have a team in Montgomery within days.

Taking a sip of scotch Kennedy sighed. “Hoover told me we’ve had our first break in the hunt for Daniel Bradley. A waitress at a Howard Johnson’s in Oklahoma City says she is certain she waited on the man two days after he disappeared. And at least two other customers that were in the restaurant also identified a picture of the man. It’s the first real lead we’ve had on him in almost a week.”

Edwin nodded, “About time we got some good news in all this mess,” he said.

Robert took another sip of his scotch then asked Edwin, “What’s your take on this and Wallace’s reaction. I’m not saying Wallace was behind the bombing, but his rhetoric certainly seems to have been at least partially responsible for it?”

Edwin thought for a moment. Wallace’s reaction to the bombing had been surprising. He had called Washington to ask when an F.B.I. team could be sent to Alabama and promising the full resources of the state would be put in Kennedy’s hands to find those who did this.”

Edwin then sad, “So, on the one hand his rhetoric has been stirring up violence on the other he is anxious to have this case solved. The answer Bobby is politics pure and simple.”

Edwin continued, “With both Jack and L.B.J. gone, the two front-runners who would have likely kept the White House for us in ’64 are gone. Now the field is wide open. Wallace sees a chance to grab the nomination. I doubt he’ll succeed but if he carries enough of the South, he will have enough votes to decide who will be nominated. That means he gets to write the platform and likely dictate policy for the next four years. You know if that happens that any chance for further civil rights legislation is dead until at least ’68.”

“And that will spell trouble,” Kennedy said somberly. “Right now, with King and his people still leading the movement things have stayed relatively peaceful. But if there is no change over the next four years and it is seen Washington is dragging its feet then more violent extremists may well take over the movement like Malcolm X and Stokely Carmichael. And if that happens the term ‘long hot summer’ could take on a whole new meaning in the next four years.”

“On the other hand, you have Governor Connally running. He is portraying himself as the southern moderate. I would call him the anti-Wallace,” said Edwin. Then he shook his head, “Given the situation with the Dallas 25, I don’t see this ending well for him. Texas is very much a law-and-order state and the prosecution of 25 police officers is not going to sit well with the people of Dallas. You saw the coverage of the demonstration earlier today?”

“Yes, and it looks like the crazies are out with the simple honest people and the families of the officers, demanding answers. Answers we can’t give them yet,” Kennedy concluded.

“And it’s those crazies, the extremists on both sides of the color barrier we must watch out for. Groups like the KKK see a Wallace presidency as the means to halt desegregation and other civil rights legislation in their tracks. On the other hand, there are some militant black groups that are willing to take a more violent road to gain those rights and are just waiting for an excuse, like the Montgomery church bombing,” Edwin responded.

“Not a good picture to end the year on,” Kennedy said.

“No sir,” agreed Guthman. Then after a moment he said. “By the way, have you heard, it looks like Senator Humphrey will be declaring his candidacy in the next week or so. News is he’s already forming his election team.”

Kennedy looked mildly surprised. He had been so busy with both the investigations in Dallas and the church bombing he hadn’t had much time for other news. “Do you think he has a chance?

“In the northern industrial states, maybe, in the south, more problematic,” responded Guthman. If he doesn’t carry any of the south, then it depends whether Connally or Wallace do.”

After a moment Edwin Guthman asked, “Are you still planning not to run in ’64?”

Kennedy shook his head. Given the situation in Dallas and this potential time bomb we’ve got ticking near Montgomery I need to give all my energy to trying to keep these little blazes from becoming full-fledged conflagrations. And once my time as Attorney General is done, I intend to turn the office over to whoever wins in ’64. Edwin, after Jack’s death I really need to spend time with my family. I think we are all going to need a four-year breather before I decide when or if I am going to run in ’68.”
Stevenson? Symington?
 
Stevenson is somewhere between an honored elder statesman and a 2(3?) time loser like William Jennings Bryan. Despite his performance as UN Ambassador, I doubt anyone would see him as a viable candidate. Also he would die of a heart attack iotl 1965.

Symington, otoh , could be a ringer although he would be a hard sell in the deep south due to his opposition to segregation.
 
My recommendations:
Governor Terry Sanford (NC)
Senator Hubert Humphrey (MN)
Representative James Roosevelt (CA)
Senator Edmund Muskie (ME)
Governor Endicott Peabody (MA)
Senator Albert Gore (TN)
Senator William Proxmire (WI)
 
Nixon 64?
It’s not unusual for politicians to seek a rebound attempt after losing:
1952 & 56: Adlai Stevenson II
1944 & 48: Thomas E. Dewey
1896, 1900 & 1908: William Jennings Bryan
1884 & 1888: Grover Cleveland

To name a few hopefuls. The question is will he want to come back this quick after losing 1960 presidential & 1962 Gubernatorial elections, as well as declaring to not be kicked around no more.

What will be interesting in 1964 is will Barry Goldwater run while Wallace is still a potential candidate, both supporting Conservative views.

If their is a conservative democratic ticket, could Liberal Republican, Nelson Rockefeller, be the moderate that speaks to the average American?
 
It’s not unusual for politicians to seek a rebound attempt after losing:
1952 & 56: Adlai Stevenson II
1944 & 48: Thomas E. Dewey
1896, 1900 & 1908: William Jennings Bryan
1884 & 1888: Grover Cleveland

To name a few hopefuls. The question is will he want to come back this quick after losing 1960 presidential & 1962 Gubernatorial elections, as well as declaring to not be kicked around no more.

What will be interesting in 1964 is will Barry Goldwater run while Wallace is still a potential candidate, both supporting Conservative views.

If their is a conservative democratic ticket, could Liberal Republican, Nelson Rockefeller, be the moderate that speaks to the average American?
I'm thinking the "reluctant Republican" George Romney (father of Mitt Romney) might throw his hat into the ring for the '64 GOP nomination. He would probably win too and with a reputation as a moderate/liberal he would have a very good shot at the election.
 
Chapter Eleven: Thoughts and Meditations

Geon

Donor
Warning! This section contains religious oriented material. I make no apologies for it given my background but if you are offended by said material feel free to skip this section.

Chapter 11: Further Thoughts and Meditations​

Grace Baptist Church, near Montgomery, Alabama, 9:00 a.m. EST: December 7, 1963:

In the parking lot next to the blasted front of the Grace Baptist Church, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was speaking with the families of those whose loved ones had died in the bombing a few days ago. Several hundred both black and white were gathered. Many from neighboring churches both black and white had come together when they heard about what happened and offered to help as they could. A rebuilding fund for the church had already raised $1,000.

Dr. King’s bodyguard had been concerned about this appearance, but King was adamant. “I cannot just send condolences. I must be there. I am a pastor, and my first duty is to offer comfort to the living.”

As he began his sermon, Dr. King remembered how the previous evening he had agonized over what to say. He would reveal later that during that evening – what King called his own dark night of the soul; he came to a realization. As he would explain in an interview later in 1970:

“I asked myself what I had to offer these suffering family members. What can I say to the that will matter? Speaking of some vague future hope where the rights of all would be respected didn’t seem to offer much hope to them. Then I remembered the words of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, 15:19 which says, “If in this life only we have hoped in Christ we are of all people most miserable.” I realized a truth that for years I had neglected, namely that the reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ gives us hope not only for here and now but for the future.”​

In his sermon Dr. King not only talked of the resurrection hope but also of the need for forgiveness.

“In the scriptures we read we are not to overcome evil with evil but overcome evil with good. If we give in to hatred, if we give into fear, then we have given our enemies both spiritual and physical a victory over us.”

The sermon lasted for 45 minutes. As Dr. King concluded the service with a closing prayer a white man came up and asked to speak with him. Warily the bodyguards allowed him to do so after a nod from Dr. King.

The man approached with tears in his eyes and spoke. “Dr. King I have something you need to know.” Then he bent forward and whispered something to Dr. King. After several minutes Dr. King nodded. He asked, “Are you willing to tell this to the proper authorities? The man still in tears nodded. “Please forgive me. And ask the good Lord to forgive me!” Dr. King replied, "He already has son.”

And then Dr. King invited the young man to meet the loved ones of those who had died when he had driven the car that the dynamite bomb had been thrown from.

Like King, they too forgave him.
 
Last edited:
Warning! This section contains religious oriented material. I make no apologies for it given my background but if you are offended by said material feel free to skip this section.

Chapter 11: Further Thoughts and Meditations​

Grace Baptist Church, near Montgomery, Alabama, 9:00 a.m. EST: December 7, 1963:

In the parking lot next to the blasted front of the Grace Baptist Church, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was speaking with the families of those whose loved ones had died in the bombing a few days ago. Several hundred both black and white were gathered. Many from neighboring churches both black and white had come together when they heard about what happened and offered to help as they could. A rebuilding fund for the church had already raised $1,000.

Dr. King’s bodyguard had been concerned about this appearance, but King was adamant. “I cannot just send condolences. I must be there. I am a pastor, and my first duty is to offer comfort to the living.”

As he began his sermon, Dr. King remembered how the previous evening he had agonized over what to say. He would reveal later that during that evening – what King called his own dark night of the soul; he came to a realization. As he would explain in an interview later in 1970:

“I asked myself what I had to offer these suffering family members. What can I say to the that will matter? Speaking of some vague future hope where the rights of all would be respected didn’t seem to offer much hope to them. Then I remembered the words of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, 15:19 which says, “If in this life only we have hoped in Christ we are of all people most miserable.” I realized a truth that for years I had neglected, namely that the reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ gives us hope not only for here and now but for the future.”​

In his sermon Dr. King not only talked of the resurrection hope but also of the need for forgiveness.

“In the scriptures we read we are not to overcome evil with evil but overcome evil with good. If we give in to hatred, if we give into fear, then we have given our enemies both spiritual and physical a victory over us.”

The sermon lasted for 45 minutes. As Dr. King concluded the service with a closing prayer a white man came up and asked to speak with him. Warily the bodyguards allowed him to do so after a nod from Dr. King.

The man approached with tears in his eyes and spoke. “Dr. King I have something you need to know.” Then he bent forward and whispered something to Dr. King. After several minutes Dr. King nodded. He asked, “Are you willing to tell this to the proper authorities? The man still in tears nodded. “Please forgive me. And ask the good Lord to forgive me!” Dr. King replied, he already has son.”

And then Dr. King invited the young man to meet the loved ones of those who had died when he had driven the car that the dynamite bomb had been thrown from.

Like King, they too forgave him.
Wow! That is so heartwarming! A true testament to how anyone can be forgiven for their sins!
 
That is impressive. I think king would actually do that.
It's also a good reminder to me that there is clergy like Fred Rogers and Martin Luther King...my personal experience has been with ones that, lets just say, had get out of jail free cards...until they didn't. (No one organization has only good or only bad...)
 
That seems like Dr King to me.

Wonder how the police will take such a confession?

Nice to know King survives to at least 1970.
 
Of course, just because the family said that they forgave him, doesn't mean they really did. How can anyone say they don't fogive if that would disappoint one of their deity's representatives? Human emotions aren't quite that easy to turn on and off.
 
Top