Something Serious Has Happened on Air Force One (a Tl/story by Geon)
- Thread starter Geon
- Start date
He had already declined to run and it's too late in the season for him to jump into it.
Chapter Thirteen: Requests
Geon
Donor
Chapter 13: Requests
Washington, D.C.; Attorney General’s Office; December 10, 1963; 9:30 a.m.
Edwin Guthman entered Robert’s office in time to hear Robert on the phone. And from the tone of Kennedy’s voice, he was less than happy with the conversation.
Robert Kennedy waved his aide toward a seat in the office. Then after a moment he said, “This goes against my better judgement Jackie, but if this is what you want, I’ll see what I can do to arrange things.”
After a moment Kennedy simply said goodbye and hung up the phone. Shaking his head, he looked up at Edwin and said simply, “Jackie wants me to arrange for her to meet with Oswald.”
A look of surprise came over Edwin and he blurted the most obvious response, “Why?”
“She wants to look the man in the face who murdered her husband. She wants to hear from him why he did what he did.” Kennedy sighed, “I gave her over a dozen reasons why I didn’t think that was practical or wise, but you know Jackie. In the end I realized it is her right to face the man who murdered her husband and the father of their children.”
Guthman shook his head, “So when are you arranging this meeting?” Bobby smiled, “Not for a few months at least. I think Jackie needs time to heal. I think if she accepts the offer of becoming the White House Social Director, it will give her something to do and take her mind off Dallas.”
Edwin nodded in agreement then said, “I’ve got some news about Oswald and his trial. First, Mr. Bailey has yet to enter a plea for Oswald. He says he wants to wait for the results from the physical and psychological evaluations to come back before he decides. In the meantime, the judge has set February 15th as the tentative trial date for Oswald. Bailey has agreed to that date. He’s also asked that Oswald be given the right of visitation with his wife, Marina.”
Kennedy thought for a moment and then said, “No, they can exchange letters if they want, but no visitation rights yet. Not until we’re certain that Marina is not an agent of some type. Interviews with her by the F.B.I. have so far produced nothing but I don’t want to give an opening for Oswald passing information to whoever was his control if the Soviets are involved here.”
Guthman nodded then said, “I took the liberty of taking some of the taped conversations we’ve made of Oswald’s talk with the guards and other prison personnel and had a psychologist evaluate them for some sign of what the doctors who are examining Oswald might be looking for. In a word he thinks Oswald is a – in his words - psychopathic narcissist.”
“That’s a new one,” commented Kennedy.
“As he explained it to me Oswald has sought attention all his life, he didn’t get it from his mother, he didn’t get it when he joined the Marines, he didn’t get it when he defected, and finally he didn’t get it when he tried to start that one-man Fair Play for Cuba Committee. His life has been centered around seeking approval and attention for himself. The assassination may have been a means by which Oswald was saying loudly to the world, here I am notice me. But while that might be considered abnormal it wouldn’t be considered insanity according to the legal definition of the word.”
“Let’s hope the judge see it that way,” Kennedy replied. “The insanity defense rarely pans out, but it is so broadly defined that one judge might have a different view of things over another regarding it. I don’t want to see Oswald spending time in a mental institution and then getting out after a few years because the doctors there give him a clean bill of health.”
“And one other thing Edwin, I’ve decided we are not going to ask for the death penalty here. Killing Oswald won’t bring back Jack. And it would make Oswald into a martyr that other would-be assassins might look at. No, I want him to get life in prison with absolutely no possibility of parole. I want him to have to face what he’s done for the rest of his life. That I think is a far worse punishment then death for him. He wants attention, well he’s gotten it, but when this trial is over, I want him to languish until his name is forgotten by everyone and is remembered only as a brief name in the history books at best!”
Just curious, wouldn’t it be illegal for the DPD to discharge their weapons on AF1, as that would be considered Federal property, and they had no jurisdiction to do so? So even if the Secret Service fire did kill someone, wouldn’t that be considered a “justified” shooting?
Oh, sorry if this has been brought up before, but in this TL, did Oswald try to kill Edwin Walker?
ric350
Oh, sorry if this has been brought up before, but in this TL, did Oswald try to kill Edwin Walker?
ric350
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I could see the 'Son of Sam Laws' that were passed in RL happening a couple decades early because of Oswald.
Further thoughts on the Dallas (or Fort Worth) Cowboys in TTL:
Assuming the Cowboys move to Fort Worth, they would likely play in Amon G. Carter Stadium, the home of the TCU Horned Frogs, which seated around 46,000 people in 1963, half of the Cotton Bowl's capacity--unless, of course, they decided to play at the Cotton Bowl until a new stadium could be built in the Fort Worth/Arlington area, which seems likely, IMO. It would likely look like Texas Stadium in OTL, but maybe butterflies would ensure that it is the first retractable roof stadium in the NFL (in OTL, it was supposed to be, but it was discovered that the structure couldn't support the additional weight, hence the look of the stadium); it's likely built near Arlington Stadium, the eventual home of the Texas Rangers in OTL (AT & T Stadium, the current home of the Cowboys, was opened in Arlington in OTL in 2009)...
Just my .02...
Assuming the Cowboys move to Fort Worth, they would likely play in Amon G. Carter Stadium, the home of the TCU Horned Frogs, which seated around 46,000 people in 1963, half of the Cotton Bowl's capacity--unless, of course, they decided to play at the Cotton Bowl until a new stadium could be built in the Fort Worth/Arlington area, which seems likely, IMO. It would likely look like Texas Stadium in OTL, but maybe butterflies would ensure that it is the first retractable roof stadium in the NFL (in OTL, it was supposed to be, but it was discovered that the structure couldn't support the additional weight, hence the look of the stadium); it's likely built near Arlington Stadium, the eventual home of the Texas Rangers in OTL (AT & T Stadium, the current home of the Cowboys, was opened in Arlington in OTL in 2009)...
Just my .02...
Most people announce around the year before like January to November of the previous year (i.e. 1963)
marktaha
Banned
I support the death penalty in extreme cases but not life without possibility of parole. Was that even legal then? I believe that anyone who's served thirty years should be released- one of the things I have against Bobby is his refusal to release Robert Stroud.
Chapter Thirteen (contd.) Requests
Geon
Donor
A short time later Robert Kennedy and his aide were looking over the reports from the ballistics experts and the coroner. Ironically the coroner who did the autopsies on Johnson and O’Donnell was the same man whose insisted that J.F.K.’s autopsy be performed in Dallas before his body was moved to Washington, namely Dr. Earl Rose.
“The evidence is pretty clear,” said Guthman. First, the three shots came from the same service revolvers used by the Secret Service. Each bullet was from a different weapon. Second, based on the trajectory of the bullets came from behind O’Donnell and Johnson. So, it looks like the timeline for this is first there was a scuffle between an angry O’Donnell and Dr. Rose. Then one of the DPD officers probably Bradley panicked and drew his weapon. The gun fires by accident. The agents immediately draw their guns and fire. One or more of the other police officers fire their weapons. Beyond that we don’t know who managed to get things under control but after one round of shots were fired both sides came to their senses thankfully.”
“Thankfully,” Kennedy said and shook his head. “Edwin we’ve got the DPD threatening to strike and a political maelstrom brewing unlike anything I’ve seen before. There’s very little to be thankful for after what happened here!”
“We need to get James Rowley in here to see this. Did any of the agents who were debriefed when they got back to Washington even mention any of this,” R.F.K. asked?
Guthman shook his head. “I read and re-read the transcripts. The one thing all the agents agree on is that things happened fast. None of them thinks a shot was fired from their direction but their answers leave a lot of room for doubt.”
“Get James Rowley in here as soon as possible, and I want the three agents whose guns discharged to be interrogated again today. We need answers now Edwin, I feel like we’re trying to keep the dike from breaking and the cracks are spreading!”
“The evidence is pretty clear,” said Guthman. First, the three shots came from the same service revolvers used by the Secret Service. Each bullet was from a different weapon. Second, based on the trajectory of the bullets came from behind O’Donnell and Johnson. So, it looks like the timeline for this is first there was a scuffle between an angry O’Donnell and Dr. Rose. Then one of the DPD officers probably Bradley panicked and drew his weapon. The gun fires by accident. The agents immediately draw their guns and fire. One or more of the other police officers fire their weapons. Beyond that we don’t know who managed to get things under control but after one round of shots were fired both sides came to their senses thankfully.”
“Thankfully,” Kennedy said and shook his head. “Edwin we’ve got the DPD threatening to strike and a political maelstrom brewing unlike anything I’ve seen before. There’s very little to be thankful for after what happened here!”
“We need to get James Rowley in here to see this. Did any of the agents who were debriefed when they got back to Washington even mention any of this,” R.F.K. asked?
Guthman shook his head. “I read and re-read the transcripts. The one thing all the agents agree on is that things happened fast. None of them thinks a shot was fired from their direction but their answers leave a lot of room for doubt.”
“Get James Rowley in here as soon as possible, and I want the three agents whose guns discharged to be interrogated again today. We need answers now Edwin, I feel like we’re trying to keep the dike from breaking and the cracks are spreading!”
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There are only a few options here:
1) The agents are completely incompetent
2) There is a coverup
That's the only possibilities if they don't think that any shots were fired by them. Unlike semi-automatic pistols, revolvers keep the empty casings until they are unloaded. I could possibly believe them not realizing it in the moment but as soon as they unload their revolvers (for cleaning or any other reason) three of them will find an empty casing.... The only explanation for them honestly still not knowing that they fired a shot is that they are still carrying a empty casing in their revolver 2 1/2 weeks later despite being in a position that requires meticulous attention to detail and firearms proficiency.
EDIT: The implication that neither the FBI nor the Secret Service themselves did even a cursory examination of the agents' service revolvers as part of the preliminary investigation also does not speak well of either group. That's a rookie-level investigatory mistake that the FBI should definitely not be making accidentally. The DPD Union could justifiably accuse them of covering for each other from the outset.
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Possible but unlikely. It's hard to fake bullet trajectories and fact that they claim to be able to distinguish between 3 separate revolvers means that the bullets have been recovered in decent shape. That being said, the claim that the bullets have been conclusively tied to the "type" of revolver used by the Secret Services is a bit more suspect. This could either be evidence of foul play in the forensic reports or the simple case of the author not being a forensic expert. *This is definitely not a critique against Geon, there are way too many niche subjects in any storyline for even a well informed author (which he gives every indication of being) to be 100% accurate on.*
Decades of police procedurals have polluted the public consciousness on what, exactly, can be determined from ballistic evidence. The only thing that would be determinable would be size and maybe bullet type. If it is in good condition, it might be possible to match it to a specific firearm but outside of some rare exceptions you would not be able to determine the type of firearm from just the bullet. The standard issue Secret Service sidearm prior to the events in this story would have been the Colt Detective Special in .38 Special. That round was also incredibly popular with police departments during that time frame (though they generally reserved the Detective Special for.... detectives and went for something like a Colt Official Police for their patrol officers). It does seem that DPD allowed a bit of leeway in what their officers carried (with 1911s in .45 ACP being quite common) so it is possible that there could still be some ballistic differences. Either way, I look forward to seeing what comes next.
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Chapter Thirteen (contd.) Requsts
Geon
Donor
First I will fully admit I am no expert in ballistics or firearms. What I know is from various discussions with those who are so versed. Where I am in error please bear with me.
That said, here is the next part.
----------------------------------------------------
Dallas, TX, Federal Building, 12:20 p.m. C.S.T.:
J. Edgar Hoover was furious as he listened to the Attorney General on the phone describing the latest findings from the ballistics and forensics lab. But in this case his anger was not directed at Robert Kennedy but at the investigative teams.
“How the bloody hell did the forensics people miss something this obvious!” It was both a question and an exclamation. “We’re supposed to have some of the best people working for us in this field, and they missed something this basic?”
On the other end of the line Kennedy replied. “It appears so Mr. Hoover. I don’t know if someone was deliberately trying to cover up the data or if it was a simple blunder, but the problem is that this puts us all in a bad light.”
“Mister Attorney General I agree with you,” Hoover replied, and I never thought those words would come out of my mouth regarding a Kennedy he thought.
“Mr. Hoover, I suggest we have these results double checked by an independent laboratory that can either confirm or deny the validity of these results,” Kennedy said in as reassuring a voice as possible. Hoover hated others telling him what needed to be done or how to run his organization
To Kennedy’s surprise Hoover agreed. “That’s probably the best option. We need to be sure of things. And we need to grill those agents again on what happened. I’m going to come back on the next flight to Washington. I want to be there when we talk with these men.”
“Very good Edgar, and one other thing, until we get independent verification from the labs, we keep this quiet. Until we have facts to present to the public, we don’t want this to be leaked to the press,” Kennedy responded.
“One other thing,” Kennedy continued, “Anything new regarding Bradley?”
“We have one possible lead Mr. Attorney General,” responded Hoover. “A gas station attendant at a Texaco outside of Little Rock identified a picture of Bradley yesterday evening. There’s nothing since then – that is if you don’t count the number of unverified reports, we’ve gotten that he’s anywhere from California to Florida!”
Kennedy chuckled briefly then said, “All right then Mr. Hoover, I’ll expect you back here in Washington by tomorrow aftrernoon to go over those transcripts of the interviews with me.”
After getting off the phone with Kennedy, Hoover ran the conversation over in his mind and realized what had been unusual about it. Out loud he said, “Did Kennedy just call me Edgar?”
That said, here is the next part.
----------------------------------------------------
Dallas, TX, Federal Building, 12:20 p.m. C.S.T.:
J. Edgar Hoover was furious as he listened to the Attorney General on the phone describing the latest findings from the ballistics and forensics lab. But in this case his anger was not directed at Robert Kennedy but at the investigative teams.
“How the bloody hell did the forensics people miss something this obvious!” It was both a question and an exclamation. “We’re supposed to have some of the best people working for us in this field, and they missed something this basic?”
On the other end of the line Kennedy replied. “It appears so Mr. Hoover. I don’t know if someone was deliberately trying to cover up the data or if it was a simple blunder, but the problem is that this puts us all in a bad light.”
“Mister Attorney General I agree with you,” Hoover replied, and I never thought those words would come out of my mouth regarding a Kennedy he thought.
“Mr. Hoover, I suggest we have these results double checked by an independent laboratory that can either confirm or deny the validity of these results,” Kennedy said in as reassuring a voice as possible. Hoover hated others telling him what needed to be done or how to run his organization
To Kennedy’s surprise Hoover agreed. “That’s probably the best option. We need to be sure of things. And we need to grill those agents again on what happened. I’m going to come back on the next flight to Washington. I want to be there when we talk with these men.”
“Very good Edgar, and one other thing, until we get independent verification from the labs, we keep this quiet. Until we have facts to present to the public, we don’t want this to be leaked to the press,” Kennedy responded.
“One other thing,” Kennedy continued, “Anything new regarding Bradley?”
“We have one possible lead Mr. Attorney General,” responded Hoover. “A gas station attendant at a Texaco outside of Little Rock identified a picture of Bradley yesterday evening. There’s nothing since then – that is if you don’t count the number of unverified reports, we’ve gotten that he’s anywhere from California to Florida!”
Kennedy chuckled briefly then said, “All right then Mr. Hoover, I’ll expect you back here in Washington by tomorrow aftrernoon to go over those transcripts of the interviews with me.”
After getting off the phone with Kennedy, Hoover ran the conversation over in his mind and realized what had been unusual about it. Out loud he said, “Did Kennedy just call me Edgar?”
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