Some thoughts on a Bonaparte scenario

How about a scenario where Napoleon Bonaparte has a Polish love interest,
maybe they meet before the French Revolution, possibly at one of the locations he's stationed, it's his deepest love, she return's to Poland, they write to each other, he visits her. Maybe through her he encounters and gets to know Tadeusz Kościuszko. Do they strike up an immediate friendship, suppose they find each other on the same wavelength and they discuss military matters endlessly. Thanks to his Polish love interest he becomes passionate about Polish liberation.
There is Napoleon Bonaparte in Warsaw for the Kosciuszko Uprising, or maybe elsewhere, however he is in charge of a sizeable force and ...???
Maybe Napoleon plays a part in influencing Kosciuszko so the uprising takes place in more favourable circumstances, or at a more favourable time.
Just an idea i'm throwing out for comments from anyone interested.

regards all.
 
How about a scenario where Napoleon Bonaparte has a Polish love interest,
maybe they meet before the French Revolution, possibly at one of the locations he's stationed, it's his deepest love, she return's to Poland, they write to each other, he visits her. Maybe through her he encounters and gets to know Tadeusz Kościuszko. Do they strike up an immediate friendship, suppose they find each other on the same wavelength and they discuss military matters endlessly. Thanks to his Polish love interest he becomes passionate about Polish liberation.
There is Napoleon Bonaparte in Warsaw for the Kosciuszko Uprising, or maybe elsewhere, however he is in charge of a size force and ...???
Maybe Napoleon plays a part in influencing Kosciuszko so the uprising takes place in more favourable circumstances, or at a more favourable time.
Just an idea i'm throwing out for comments from anyone interested.

regards all.

This could well butterfly away the Empire.
 
Napoleon Bonaparte hero of the Polish Revolution

Possibly or maybe he returns to France as the hero of the Polish Revolution
 
Why not have him marry Maria Walewska in 1809 (practical if she had been widowed in 1808) ?

Their real son, born in 1810 in our TL, would have been named Napoleon Bonaparte instead of Alexander Walewski.

But this is not decisive. Napoleon was a cold calculator who made his decisions only on what he thought his geopolitical interests were.

That is why he refused to reestablish a great Poland before 1811 when he understood that the conflict with Russia was unavoidable.

In the end it was a mistake because Alexander I of Russia since the beginning wanted to have revenge. It is in 1807 that Napoleon should have tried to roll Russia back to its 1772 frontiers.
 
Maria Walewska

When does he meet Maria Walewska, does this leave him in Poland for the polish uprising in your scenario, or do things go pretty much as in OTL with napoleon
becoming emperor then marrying her?.
Ahhh i see your thought here, as a love interest his actions at Tilsit are changed so that he creates a bigger Poland, a Kingdom ? could he have done that ?
it would antagonise his three most powerful continetal enemies, Prussia, Austria , Russia. This is a very interesting idea though.
 
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Napoleon met Maria Walewska early in 1807.

Creating a great Poland does not antagonize Austria if Austria is given territories in exchange for Galicia.

As far as Prussia is concerned, it was totally occupied and virtually distroyed as a State in the middle of 1807.

So the only mortal antagonisme is going to be with Russia. But it was much more advantageous for Napoleon to keep on fighting Russia in 1807 than to wait for 1812. Russia used these 5 years to rebuild its army, to pile-up reserves. In 1807, after the battle of Friedland, Russia had no more reserves and almost no more army.
 
So a Greater Poland would recieve West Prussia ?, weakening Prussia's ability
to be a future threat, presumably Poland recieves Russia up to Smolensk, now we have a Poland that can be a real bulwark to Russia and Austria is left to some degree satisfied but more isolated from any large potential continental ally against France. Napoleon can more easily consolidate his gains and deepen the reorganisation of Germany?. No 1812 invasion and Britain left without an alliance to fight france sues for a peace settlement ?.
 
Historical Silesia has to be turned back to Austria. This is the key to securing a sincere and lasting alliance with Austria.

The axis Paris-Vienna-Warsaw was the key to the french holding the continent for a long time.

England would still have Russia as an ally, but à rolled back Russia who would have lost all the decisive ressources of Poland-Lithuania.

There could then be peace negotiations.
 
Historical Silesia has to be turned back to Austria. This is the key to securing a sincere and lasting alliance with Austria.

The axis Paris-Vienna-Warsaw was the key to the french holding the continent for a long time.

England would still have Russia as an ally, but à rolled back Russia who would have lost all the decisive ressources of Poland-Lithuania.

There could then be peace negotiations.

Matteo

I have read, albeit a long while ago that Austria was offered the return of Silesia, probably ~1807 IIRC. However they turned it down because they realised it was too important for Prussia, who they wanted as a still decent sized power to help counter the French.

Under the conditions you mention, if Silesia had been returned, then I doubt negotiations between Britain and France would have had much effect. Napoleon is likely to be unwilling to make concessions to avoid British concerns. Having fought so long for naval security the one thing they can't afford to do, without a realistic balance of power in Europe, is give Napoleon the time to rebuild his navy.

Steve
 
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Napoleon's most realistic hope vis a vis Britain is to leave her with no European
alliance that has any realistic chance of defeating France and her allies.

Building a navy to challenge British sea power is out of the question, building the ships is possible, but training an effective fleet is going to mean sea trials, and there the British will have there chance to intervene. Even if France expends everything on building a navy she can't catch Britain up in building an
efficient battle ready navy, the naval blockade is going to accentuate France's problems and the French economy will continue to suffer.

A powerful Poland stretching to Smolensk - most likely with the Baltic region under napoleons control - may make Austria more willing to tow the line.
Prussia is finished and Russia can be matched by Poland. Austria may throw her hands up to a fait accompli and accept Silesia to cut her losses and make the best out of a bad deal. if she does that finishes any possibility of a future Prussian Austrian Alliance.

If i was Napoleon though i might be tempted to offer Silesia back to Poland, and do the job right with Poland recieving East Prussia as well.
I think this leaves Napoleon in the most durable position he can get considering the circumstances. He made a terrible mistake thinking he could
build some sort of reliable working relationship with Russia.
 
If i was Napoleon though i might be tempted to offer Silesia back to Poland, and do the job right with Poland recieving East Prussia as well.
I think this leaves Napoleon in the most durable position he can get considering the circumstances. He made a terrible mistake thinking he could
build some sort of reliable working relationship with Russia.

"Back to Poland" is a bit iffy since it was no more part of Poland after the early 1300s. That is a long time even for European history.
Much more important is the fact that the rise of German national sentiment and desire for unification is nearly inevitable. Giving Silesia (especially protestant Lower Silesia) to a non-German power will only accelerate and amplify that and not make it easier for Napoleon.
Much easier would be to give Upper Silesia back to the Bohemian Crown (ie in practical terms, Austria) and Lower Silesia to Saxony. After all, the ruler of Saxony was also the titular GD of Warsaw in OTL (and king of Poland under the constitution of 1791).
Such a strengthened Saxony (perhaps witth the Thuringian statelets added further) would be a viable counterweight to a heavily weakened Prussia.
 
Silesia to Poland

i agree in retrospect it was one of those silly spur of the moment ideas that could never work.

How realistic do you think it could have been for a great Poland to have been re-instituted, including what is know Byelo Russia, i think Greater Poland goes quite a way to giving Napoleon more security than the OTL.
Greater Poland is going to be an entirely reliable ally sitting as a buffer with Russia. it also gives him a powerful base from which to intervene against Austria and keep Prussia compliant. Am i missing something, it seems so obvious to me that i can't understand why he acted as he did.

But hey people does anyone have any thoughts on the original scenario, Napoleon becomes a champion of Polish independence rather than fighting in Italy.

Regards to all.
 
Napoleon met Maria Walewska early in 1807.

Creating a great Poland does not antagonize Austria if Austria is given territories in exchange for Galicia.

As far as Prussia is concerned, it was totally occupied and virtually distroyed as a State in the middle of 1807.

So the only mortal antagonisme is going to be with Russia. But it was much more advantageous for Napoleon to keep on fighting Russia in 1807 than to wait for 1812. Russia used these 5 years to rebuild its army, to pile-up reserves. In 1807, after the battle of Friedland, Russia had no more reserves and almost no more army.

Russia invaded Sweden in 1808 and annexed Finland after a year of fighting in 1809. It also was fighting a war against the ottomans between 1806-1812.

Russia may have been stretched in 1807 but to suggest that it was rebuilding its army and piling up reserves between 1807-1812 is nonsense. The peace deal with Napoleon was deeply unpopular with the nobility who would have rather fought on.

If Russia had fought on then Napoleon may well have collapsed in 1809-10 rather than 1813-14.
 
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