Some questions on ancient Israel/Judea

How large percentage of the population of ancient Israel/Judea were Jewish (that is, belonged to the Jewish religion)? Also, I wonder, how large percentage of the Jewish population was expelled by the Romans. I sometimes see claims that the area was more or less totally cleansed of people and that only a very small Jewish population stayed, mainly in Galilee. I would assume that a large part, probably a large majority, eventually converted to Christianity and stayed. The claim that the whole area was totally cleansed of people seems very unlikely. Most likely it was the more radical elements and religious leaders who were expelled.
 
I understand that most Jews were expelled (forced to flee) after the Second jewish Rebellion under Hadrian. Jewish communities certainly remained, although for some time Jews were not allowed to live in the city of Jerusalem IIRC.
The expulsions and killings were not targeted to radicals specifically. Sources seem to attest that devastation brought by the Roman forces had a fairly broad scope.
My general understanding (although I am not expert by any means) is that Jewish religion and self-identification represented the majority of the population of Judaea by a safe margin before the First Revolt, and were reduced to a relatively tiny minority by some time after the end of the Second revolt.
However, there are issues about the documentation of such things.
 
I have heard claims that all areas except the Galilee, was totally cleansed of people. To me this seems very unlikely. That would have been quite a big operation. And the Romans would have needed other people to move in. As far as I understand Jews were expelled several times throughout the period of Roman rule. How much is known about this expulsions?
 
Dusting the studies done (Soggin, Noth, Mazzinghi, Acquistapace,...), as a result of the defeat of the First Jewish Revolt and the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, half of the Jewish population in Palestine was exterminated: Tacitus and Titus Flavius Josephus reported the figure of 600,000 deaths (about 25% of the population ), many others were captured and sold into slavery. It seems that nearly half of the Jewish population was physically eliminated.
However, the Romans did not nurtured a particular animosity towards Judaism as a religion (religio licita).
With the destruction of the Temple had failed throughout the priesthood and the religious world associated with it. There remained, therefore, only the Pharisees. They were a traditionalist group, not related to official structures, characterized by the zealous observance of the Torah, observance that brooked no compromise. This their rigor, combined with great availability, made them very followed by the people. Were in fact the Pharisees, after the destruction of the Temple, with the canon of the Bible and the collection of exegetical and ethical standards that have allowed Israel to survive two millennia of diaspora.
The Temple had long since lost its prestige, and this explains why, unlike the return from Babylonian exile, has not been considered to reconstruct it. The doctrines and way of life of the Pharisees became the Judaism as we know it today.

The last major uprising took place under the reign of Emperor Hadrian. The news is very scarce. For Dion Cassius the Jews had rebelled because Adriano had founded the city of Aelia Capitolina on the ruins of Jerusalem, inaugurating a temple to Jupiter and profaning the holy places by building pagan buildings. For other sources, such as Eusebius of Caesarea, the revolt broke out due to a law enacted by Adriano which equated circumcision to castration, therefore making it a prohibited practice.
With the victory of Hadrian in 135 AD, the Roman repression was tremendous: 850,000 dead, most prisoners enslaved.
Jerusalem, turned in Aelia Capitolina, it was rebuilt according to Roman urban characteristics (cardus and decumanus, etc ..., on the site of the Temple were erected statues of Jupiter and of the Emperor, on the Calvary was built the Forum with the memory of the Jupiter's return from the netherworld); Jews were forbidden to enter, the Jewish celebrations, circumcision, the possession of the scrolls of the Torah (only in the fourth century, Emperor Constantine grants the Jews to go to Jerusalem only once a year, on the 9th of the month of Ab (July-August), the anniversary of the destruction of the city).
The Iudea was renamed Palaestina: Israel thus became the "Promised Land" where to return, desire expressed in the traditional Easter greeting «next year in Jerusalem».

Christians, still few and mostly Jewish converts, having at their head a gentile bishop (of pagan blood, finished the series of bishops that Eusebius called "of the circumcision"), although it remained linked to the customs still typically Jewish, were not disturbed: Jerusalem remained a secondary see, while the only important Christian center until the fourth century was Caesarea Maritima.
 
I have heard claims that all areas except the Galilee, was totally cleansed of people. To me this seems very unlikely. That would have been quite a big operation. And the Romans would have needed other people to move in. As far as I understand Jews were expelled several times throughout the period of Roman rule. How much is known about this expulsions?

Not much, but we have enough evidence IIRC to assume that Jewish occupation in Judaea never ceased completely (based on J. Healey, "Aramaic Inscriptions and Documents of the Roman Period").
"Totally cleansed of people" sounds like exaggeration based on just a priori reflection, but we know that the area was resettled, and the Romans probably had no shortage of people to move in. I don't know the specifics though.
 
The book THE INVENTION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE theorizes most Jews stayed behind and ultimately became the Palestinians.

How many rural people were killed or exiled versus how many urban? Back then most people were farmers.
 
The book THE INVENTION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE theorizes most Jews stayed behind and ultimately became the Palestinians.

How many rural people were killed or exiled versus how many urban? Back then most people were farmers.

I think that it's reasonable to assume that urban, or at least non-farming, people were the ones more often specifically targeted, while rural people "simply" suffered greatly from being the ones casually trampled over by the Roman armies.
 
As far as I understand, the Y chromosome of most male Ashkenazi Jews have been traced back to the Middle East. According to Wikipedia, the proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes. Thus it seems likely that the Ashkenazi descend from Jewish men who left Israel, although they might have intermarried with non-Jewish women who converted to Judaism. Probably both the Jews and the Palestinians have a lot of Jewish ancestry. Of course, since this is 2000 years ago, a lot of other people also descend from the ancient Jews, but some trace more of their origin there than others. Although many Jews were expelled or killed, it seems very unlikely that the Palestinians should not have a lot of Jewish ancestry.
 
600 000 deaths? That is an incredibly large number for those days? Is it possible that he has exaggerated?
 
Urbanus said:
Jerusalem remained a secondary see, while the only important Christian center until the fourth century was Caesarea Maritima.
I would add the qualifier in Palestine here. Antioch and Rome were important centres.

Eivind said:
As far as I understand, the Y chromosome of most male Ashkenazi Jews have been traced back to the Middle East. According to Wikipedia, the proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes. Thus it seems likely that the Ashkenazi descend from Jewish men who left Israel, although they might have intermarried with non-Jewish women who converted to Judaism.
Whilst not wishing to change the debate there was significant conversion of Yemenis to Judaism in pre Islamic times. How easy is it to distinguish between Y chromosomes from natives of Judea/Palestine and those from the Yemen?
 
Whilst not wishing to change the debate there was significant conversion of Yemenis to Judaism in pre Islamic times. How easy is it to distinguish between Y chromosomes from natives of Judea/Palestine and those from the Yemen?

It seems more likely to me that most of the forefathers of the Ashkenazi came from ancient Israel/Judea, as it is closer to Europe, and as ancient Israel/Judea was a part of the Roman Empire. Many Jews settled throughout the Roman Empire and it seems likely that some of them might eventually have settled further north in Europe.
 
600 000 deaths? That is an incredibly large number for those days? Is it possible that he has exaggerated?


But the figures are refered for the entire region.
If you think that a city like Rome in 1527 (today, 6 May, is the anniversary of the Sack of Rome) had census 55,000 inhabitants (reduced by 80% for deaths and refugees in the nine months of looting), or that in 1545 when it was established the Duchy for the Farnese family, the city of Parma had about 20,000 inhabitants and its suburbs exceeded 125,000, the figures for the region of Judea are more than plausible, since this is moreover a border region with rich trade to the East, Asia and Arabia.
 

Deleted member 9338

The Iudea was renamed Palaestina: Israel thus became the "Promised Land" where to return, desire expressed in the traditional Easter greeting «next year in Jerusalem».

I think you mean Passover greeting, not many Jews celebrate Easter. :)

As for the question it depends on when in ancient history we are talking about. At the time of King David many of the war leaders were from outside the Jewish community.

Also in the early days of Christianity there was little to separate Jews from Christians. A hard split does not happen until the it becomes the Roman state religion.
 
I think you mean Passover greeting, not many Jews celebrate Easter. :)

As for the question it depends on when in ancient history we are talking about. At the time of King David many of the war leaders were from outside the Jewish community.

Also in the early days of Christianity there was little to separate Jews from Christians. A hard split does not happen until the it becomes the Roman state religion.

Note, however, that in Romance languages, there's little distinction. Urbanus may well be a native speaker of one of those.
 
It's worth mentioning that the Samaritans were never expelled from the region by the Romans during this period (although they were later brutally suppressed by Justinian). A small, highly inbred population survives to this day in the West Bank. Many Palestinians, particularly from Nablus, appear to be of Samaritan ancestry as well.
 
Note, however, that in Romance languages, there's little distinction. Urbanus may well be a native speaker of one of those.

In fact, in Hebrew there's almost no difference as well. Passover is פסח, or more formally חג הפסח [chag ha'pesach](most commonly translated along the lines of "The holiday of passing over"), whereas Easter is חג הפסחא [chag ha'pas'cha], which appears to basically be the Aramaic name for Passover - or at least, is clearly highly related (in Aramaic, the letter א was often added on to the word's root as a suffix - interesting aside, almost any word that ends with א, including such basic modern Hebrew words as those for father, mother, grandfather, and grandmother, almost certainly comes from Aramaic; compare modern Hebrew אבא [aba; "father"] with Biblical אב [av, "father"]).

The modern name in English of the holiday Easter is clearly taken from a Germanic fertility goddess and her namesake holiday near the Spring Equinox.
 
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