Socialist CSA vs. Fascist USA

Continuing from here. In a low-butterflies Turtledove zone, let's say the following happens:

The white working class gets really angry in the (independent) South from the 1870s/1880s onwards, and a racist form of socialism takes over, seeing slaves as a threat to their labor. Whenever manumission happens (in the 1900s?), many freemen are expelled to the North and elsewhere, and the remaining Confederate blacks are considered to be a lumpenprole excluded counterrevolutionary class. By the '40s, a socialist Confederate state is in power and socialist parties within the South are reaching to the northern white industrial worker and urging them to cast off the chains of abolitionist capital to establish a white worker-run Northwestern Confederacy.

Some sort of WWI-analogue happens here, wherein the U.S. is bloodily bruised.

The U.S. receives a growing African American minority. Black nationalism becomes a thing, but the anger is directed at the South. Northern revanchists form an unlikely partnership with black nationalists. Afro-fascism becomes a thing. Marcus Garvey is elected as the first black president, shocking the nation, though he is seen largely as a convenient figurehead for the white militarists.

Does this work in a pulpy implausible Stirling/Turtledove way?
 
Aside from Marcus Garvey being born in Jamaica, that seems wonderfully plausible. :p Actually though, fascist north is reasonable, it's more the socialist Confederacy that's really difficult to succeed. It's just very hard to think that the distinction between black and white in the Confederacy will ever become less important than that between lower and upper class whites.
 

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Aside from Marcus Garvey being born in Jamaica, that seems wonderfully plausible. :p Actually though, fascist north is reasonable, it's more the socialist Confederacy that's really difficult to succeed. It's just very hard to think that the distinction between black and white in the Confederacy will ever become less important than that between lower and upper class whites.
Have the south adopt a rather vehemently colonial solution to the African population, which was the common popular solution after emancipation. Perhaps it is the vast employ of white laborers after the Blacks have been forced to move to Haiti, Central America, and Liberia to take jobs normally seen as beneath them that sparks the Socialist Revolution.
 
Yeah, that's why the CSA aren't exactly socialist. More like their own brand or racist socialism for whites. Sort of like what happened with labor movements there in OTL.

Maybe they reach out to European immigrant workers?
 
I could see "socialism for whites" as a policy maybe; a demand to have the land, and slaves:eek: shared between all the "real" people in the south.
 
Aside from Marcus Garvey being born in Jamaica, that seems wonderfully plausible. :p Actually though, fascist north is reasonable, it's more the socialist Confederacy that's really difficult to succeed. It's just very hard to think that the distinction between black and white in the Confederacy will ever become less important than that between lower and upper class whites.

A socialist Confederacy may be somewhat difficult, yes, but a fascist *U.S.A. is, to be accurate, damn near implausible without some sort of extraordinary circumstances. You're quite a bit more likely to see a communist U.S. than a fascist one, even with a socialist C.S., let alone without one(and even a communist U.S. is somewhat unlikely in a successful Civil War scenario).

Continuing from here. In a low-butterflies Turtledove zone, let's say the following happens:

The white working class gets really angry in the (independent) South from the 1870s/1880s onwards, and a racist form of socialism takes over, seeing slaves as a threat to their labor. Whenever manumission happens (in the 1900s?), many freemen are expelled to the North and elsewhere, and the remaining Confederate blacks are considered to be a lumpenprole excluded counterrevolutionary class. By the '40s, a socialist Confederate state is in power and socialist parties within the South are reaching to the northern white industrial worker and urging them to cast off the chains of abolitionist capital to establish a white worker-run Northwestern Confederacy.

Some sort of WWI-analogue happens here, wherein the U.S. is bloodily bruised.

The U.S. receives a growing African American minority. Black nationalism becomes a thing, but the anger is directed at the South. Northern revanchists form an unlikely partnership with black nationalists. Afro-fascism becomes a thing. Marcus Garvey is elected as the first black president, shocking the nation, though he is seen largely as a convenient figurehead for the white militarists.

Does this work in a pulpy implausible Stirling/Turtledove way?

One of the biggest problems with this, right away, is a guy like Garvey being elected in the first place: sorry, but just being a black guy would pose some serious hurdles for him in the 1930s, even if some of those barriers would be more cultural than racial. And *fascist on top of that? Yeah, I'm sorry, but I just don't see that the majority of Americans would be willing to support for any fascist candidate, even with a socialist Confederacy on their border.

If anything at all, simply because of how a socialist C.S.A. would be likely to come about(planters as whole tossed out on their asses, some possibly jailed, or even executed as enemies of the state, perhaps especially the Fire-Eaters, and/or their ideological successors), we might see a major *socialist* movement in the U.S., including, quite possibly, the rise of Afro-Communism.
 
Marcus Garvey being president is pretty impossible except in a Turtledove-Stirling pop AH dramatic license sort of way. But it'd be cool if he ended up being the Himmler or whatever analogue to the fascist U.S. I still think instead of having it being purely anti-socialist fascist, it'd be interesting it'd be an alliance between Yankee revanchists and black nationalists. Even if the former don't see blacks as equals, they'd think that reconquering the South would be a convenient place to resettle blacks who had been exiled/expelled by the socialist Confederacy, and as a useful group to dominate the Southrons with.

I think the Yankee fuhrer would need to be a military man, known for colorblind views.
 
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