So Germany Doesn't Betray Russia...

This happens during World War 2. Germany doesn't betray Russia. What happens next? Can Germany win World War 2 if they stay alligned with Russia? Anyone?
 

Bearcat

Banned
This happens during World War 2. Germany doesn't betray Russia. What happens next? Can Germany win World War 2 if they stay alligned with Russia? Anyone?

Why would Hitler do this?

His intentions from the 20s included Lebensraum in the east - the USSR. It wasn't a "betrayal" - it was Hitler's plan all along, and even Stalin knew it (though he thought he would have a little more time).

This is asb unless something bizarre happens with Hitler dead and someone very unlikely replacing him in power. None of the Nazis or Wehrmacht leaders had any real intentions of staying 'allies' with the Soviets for long.
 
Germany ends up having the war go no where by sending all extra forces that would have been sent to the Russian Front preparing for Operation Sealion and garrisoning France. Russia is seen as the liberator of Europe when they invade in 1944.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Russia is seen as the liberator of Europe when they invade in 1944.

Given that the Nazis typically behaved kinda gentlemanly with occupied "Aryan" peoples of Western Europe at large first, until the various Resistances started blowing up things (except the roundup of Jews and political oppositors of course, but that little affected the mindset of the masses, it changed when the Nazis started using large-scale reprisals and harshened the occupation regime in Western Europe, too) and all but the avowed Communists feared the Bolsheviks more than they feared the fascists, while the record of the Red Army as occupiers is typically awful, this statement is hilarious. Rather, the various Petain/Franco/Horthy/Mussolini fascist vassals of the Nazi Empire are going to have a field day rallying their peoples to the anticommunist banner if Stalin attacks first. I very very much doubt any European people in this scenario except maybe the Czechs and the Serbs are going to see the Soviets as anything else than bogeymen.
 
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Given that the Nazis typically behaved gentlemanly with occupied "Aryan" peoples of Western Europe at large until the various Resistances started blowing up things, and all but the avowed Communists feared the Bolsheviks, while the record of the Red Army as occupiers is always rather bad, this statement is hilarious. Rather, the various Petain/Franco/Horthy/Mussolini fascist vassals of the Nazi Empire are going to have a field day rallying their peoples to the anticommunist banner if Stalin attacks first.

When Russia came to save the day in the Napoleonic wars people were pretty happy under french rule (besides the whole blockade thing, but Germany isnt getting much outside of Europe goods), and yet people started cheering.

while the record of the Red Army as occupiers is always rather bad,
Being invaded and having so many people in your country killed tends to do that to you.
 

Eurofed

Banned
When Russia came to save the day in the Napoleonic wars people were pretty happy under french rule (besides the whole blockade thing, but Germany isnt getting much outside of Europe goods), and yet people started cheering.

And of course, people do not perceive any difference between 1815 Cossacks and 1943 Red Army ready to spread the joys of Stalinism without provocation.

Being invaded and having so many people in your country killed tends to do that to you.

1939-40 Poles, Baltics, and Romanians beg to disgree that this is a tired and worn excuse.
 
I wonder how much trouble we (my dad living in london and other Brits) would have been in had the Nazis decided to knock out Britain first.
 

Tellus

Banned
You can be certain that Soviets would not be greeted as liberators in Europe if/when they attacked. Nothing could do more to solidify Nazi control over Europe than the idea of a common struggle against bolchevism.

This being said, that invasion would indeed have taken place sooner or later if Germany was unable to come to terms with the UK. More importantly, Hitler had just as strong ambitions in the east and as OTL has proven, had no interest in waiting around for a Soviet attack. Their non-aggression pact was doomed from the start I suppose, and we get a good idea of everyones intents if we look at how erratic the trade was between the two nations during the pact. Both sides constantly tried to cheat the other and deliver less while asking for more. The later this war starts, the more it favors the Soviets. Indeed, Hitler considered attacking the Soviets in July 1940 and it may have been the best window to knock them out.

I wonder how much trouble we (my dad living in london and other Brits) would have been in had the Nazis decided to knock out Britain first.

Well its an interesting scenario. A dedicated and successful Mediterranean strategy could potentially lead to the fall of Suez in 1941, and this could trigger the fall of Churchill's government and lead to a negotiated peace. This is as good as it can get for the Axis, I believe - scenarios in which the British Isles are conquered outright are too much of a stretch to seriously consider.
 

Markus

Banned
This happens during World War 2. Germany doesn't betray Russia. What happens next?

Russia attacks Germany in the summer of 1943 or a bit later because around this time the great re-organisation and modernisation of the Red Army will be complete.
 
If germany does not go east, the USSR drives west sometime between 1941 (if you believe Suvorov) and 1943, as soon as the red army's reforms are complete.
 
Depends on whether the British manage to hang out untill december 1941. If they do, Nazi Germany is screwed over massively. They wouldn't be able to fight a war on two fronts, against a fully operational Red Army and the Western Allies as well.

It would've been a much smarter move to invade the USSR in 1941 and destroy it in one sweep. We now know that that would've failed (well, it did so in OTl, at least), but when you look at it, it would've been smarter than to wait for the British Empire to give in, while in the meantime a future enemy is building up forces and an agressive ally seeks to wake up a sleeping giant.
 
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