Smallest Possible USA

Easily. And that'd leave you with something kinda like this at a bare minimum, excluding Vermont, which was kinda up in the air for a bit. Surely we can shave some more of that off.

Take off MA, CT, RI and NH in a Hartford Convention scenario, then maybe lose New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania when they secede from the slaveocrat-dominated USA in an alt-Civil-War.
 
Take off MA, CT, RI and NH in a Hartford Convention scenario, then maybe lose New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania when they secede from the slaveocrat-dominated USA in an alt-Civil-War.

and there you go, the United States of New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania
 

NothingNow

Banned
and there you go, the United States of New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania

Actually the USA in that scenario would be the Southern States, of 6 States, the Carolinas, Maryland, Delaware, Georgia and Super Virginia.

The middle colonies would be an independent Sucessor-State.

Shortly after all would become Virginia, with Maryland and Delaware merely being the first states consumed.
 
Actually the USA in that scenario would be the Southern States, of 6 States, the Carolinas, Maryland, Delaware, Georgia and Super Virginia.

I don't think so, though. The alternate *U.S. might include Virginia, simply for being the home of Jefferson and other luminaries, but I'd have a scenario more like Glen's D.S.A. story: everything south of Va. would belong to something else. I'd think the slaveocrats(or at least, those not in the Jeffersonian "slavery is unfortunate and should be eliminated as soon as possible" camp, which is to say the majority) would rather not be part of an alternate *U.S. if it even looks possible that it could end up being dominated by the Yankees. In a less successful Revolution scenario, I'm pretty sure the anti-Jeffersonians would almost decisively break for London, who would then be likely to reward them, or try to go in their own direction.
 
Some interesting ideas.

So post-ARW we're looking at 3 possible mini-USAs: Greater New England, Greater New York (NY+NJ+Penn), and Greater Virginia.

What about preARW PODs like Glen's DSA - smallest number of states to rebel, win independence and form a united nation?
 
Well, we can expect Virginia and W. Virginia to be one state as well. Also Virginia considered Kentucky and Tennessee as apart of their state till the Federal government forced them to remove their claims. Put them together and we have a Super Virginia!:eek:

People in those states regions had repeatedly tried to make their own states, there might have been a revolution if they didn't ride the wave.
 
English Unification happens way slower, or is averted, Countries on the British Isles try to stop Britain from overpowering them, Slowing down formation of Britain as a country. Britain formed in 1740s, instead of 1700s. Jamestown founded in 1620, instead of 1607, and natives kill it early. 2nd Jamestown in 1635, that continues much slower. English Civil war lasts WAYYY longer, killing alot more people before it ends. Then have it proceed stright to the Glorious Revolution, and make it last really long. Annexation of Ireland alot harder.

All this causes Britain to have a lower population , and makes it harder to mantain colonies. They thus grow slower, and expand slower.

Eventually, USA secedes, with roughly the same as OTL territory, but a lower population. The fight goes on and doesn't end well for the US. USA breaks up into USA and CSA, leaving two rump states that fail to expand,largely because of continual fighting with each other. Eventually, Canada becomes dominant on North America.

US is basically West Virginia, Virginia, Delaware,New York,Rhode Island, Washington, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire,Maine, Vermont,Maryland and Pennsylvania.
 
English Unification happens way slower, or is averted, Countries on the British Isles try to stop Britain from overpowering them, Slowing down formation of Britain as a country. Britain formed in 1740s, instead of 1700s. Jamestown founded in 1620, instead of 1607, and natives kill it early. 2nd Jamestown in 1635, that continues much slower. English Civil war lasts WAYYY longer, killing alot more people before it ends. Then have it proceed stright to the Glorious Revolution, and make it last really long. Annexation of Ireland alot harder.

All this causes Britain to have a lower population , and makes it harder to mantain colonies. They thus grow slower, and expand slower.

Eventually, USA secedes, with roughly the same as OTL territory, but a lower population. The fight goes on and doesn't end well for the US. USA breaks up into USA and CSA, leaving two rump states that fail to expand,largely because of continual fighting with each other. Eventually, Canada becomes dominant on North America.

US is basically West Virginia, Virginia, Delaware,New York,Rhode Island, Washington, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire,Maine, Vermont,Maryland and Pennsylvania.

Lepidoptericide. :eek:
 
English Unification happens way slower, or is averted, Countries on the British Isles try to stop Britain from overpowering them, Slowing down formation of Britain as a country. Britain formed in 1740s, instead of 1700s. Jamestown founded in 1620, instead of 1607, and natives kill it early. 2nd Jamestown in 1635, that continues much slower. English Civil war lasts WAYYY longer, killing alot more people before it ends. Then have it proceed stright to the Glorious Revolution, and make it last really long. Annexation of Ireland alot harder.

All this causes Britain to have a lower population , and makes it harder to mantain colonies. They thus grow slower, and expand slower.

Eventually, USA secedes, with roughly the same as OTL territory, but a lower population. The fight goes on and doesn't end well for the US. USA breaks up into USA and CSA, leaving two rump states that fail to expand,largely because of continual fighting with each other. Eventually, Canada becomes dominant on North America.

US is basically West Virginia, Virginia, Delaware,New York,Rhode Island, Washington, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire,Maine, Vermont,Maryland and Pennsylvania.

Way too many butterflies in that story. Chances are a scenario like that (and I just mean the first 2 paragraphs) would mean that Britain could never get the supremacy of North America in order for the colonists to feel safe enough to start campaigning for the removal of British regulars, and therefore no ARW full stop. In fact, if you nerf England too much, what happens is you make a French or Dutch-dominated North America far more likely, and England may eventually lose its colonies to other Europeans before it can ever make them proper sizes.
 
Way too many butterflies in that story. Chances are a scenario like that (and I just mean the first 2 paragraphs) would mean that Britain could never get the supremacy of North America in order for the colonists to feel safe enough to start campaigning for the removal of British regulars, and therefore no ARW full stop. In fact, if you nerf England too much, what happens is you make a French or Dutch-dominated North America far more likely, and England may eventually lose its colonies to other Europeans before it can ever make them proper sizes.

..Which would eliminate the USA altogether, achieving a net size of 0.
 
People in those states regions had repeatedly tried to make their own states, there might have been a revolution if they didn't ride the wave.

True, but if the US broke apart before their introduction, they would be states in the Commonwealth of Virginina
 
True, but if the US broke apart before their introduction, they would be states in the Commonwealth of Virginina
"Provinces", not states, I think. "States" used to only mean sovereign nations, and the modern usage referring to subdivisions comes from the USA itself.
 
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