Most threads about alternate United States of America tend to try to create the largest possible state so I've been thinking about what could constitute the smallest.
Have at it
Have at it
Smallest Possible USA
- Thread starter The Professor
- Start date
Tallest Skil
Banned
New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
All manner of convention fails after the Revolution, everyone else breaks off into their own spheres, they're all that remain.
All manner of convention fails after the Revolution, everyone else breaks off into their own spheres, they're all that remain.
The name United States of America is meaningless unless it's composed of every North american colony that successfully rebelled against Great Britain and emerged as a sovereign state. No one would use it. What would their motto be? Perhaps...
Out of Many a few Became One
or
United We Stand, Divided The Rest Shall Fall
That said, I imagine the geographically smallest nation to emerge if the Union broke up in say the 1790's might be one composed of Massachusetts (including whatever part of Maine it can hold on to), Connecticut and Rhode Island - that is unless Rhode Island decides to go off on its own. I wonder if New Hampshire might join with the Republic of Vermont and together attempt to wrestle some of Maine from Massachusetts.
Out of Many a few Became One
or
United We Stand, Divided The Rest Shall Fall
That said, I imagine the geographically smallest nation to emerge if the Union broke up in say the 1790's might be one composed of Massachusetts (including whatever part of Maine it can hold on to), Connecticut and Rhode Island - that is unless Rhode Island decides to go off on its own. I wonder if New Hampshire might join with the Republic of Vermont and together attempt to wrestle some of Maine from Massachusetts.
Oh, come now. Lots of TLs have the US splitting up, either New England seceding or the South, even after OTL's Constitution passed. A situation where the "United States" simply means what it originally meant - those states joined under the Articles of Confederation, could easily have various states leaving in a huff, leaving a smaller and smaller rump. What I can't see is both PA and VA leaving. Either could, but I think the other would dominate the remaining states and so the US would end up as either a greater Pennsylvania or a Greater Virginia.
The name United States of America is meaningless unless it's composed of every North american colony that successfully rebelled against Great Britain and emerged as a sovereign state.And what is the smallest this can be?
During the ARW, the Spanish wanted the USA to be only as large as the Proclamation of 1763. Get the French on board and you got it.
Dirk_Pitt
Banned
Well if General Clark failed in the Midwest then there is the possibility that the US wouldn't have the Old Northwest and possibly the old Southwest. I'm assuming no catastraphic failure in the 1787 convention.
Or maybe the Louisianna Purchase falls through somehow... That purchase more or less destined the US to dominate the Continent having full control of the Mississippi river and it's tributaries.
Or maybe the Louisianna Purchase falls through somehow... That purchase more or less destined the US to dominate the Continent having full control of the Mississippi river and it's tributaries.
Well, the smallest possible USA would be one that does not even exist or (if it must have territory) as a government in exile in some island territory (in the same vein as Taiwan).
Of course then the argument would be whether anything that has taken its previous territories can be considered a successor "American"state.
Of course then the argument would be whether anything that has taken its previous territories can be considered a successor "American"state.
Most threads about alternate United States of America tend to try to create the largest possible state so I've been thinking about what could constitute the smallest.
Have at it
I guess it's possible you could end up with something like that of For Want of a Nail's CNA, in terms of land arrangement, and then perhaps some decades later, the South breaks off for whatever reason and all you've got is New England, New York & N.J., Penn., Del., Maryland, all of the states north of the Ohio, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, the Dakotas, and whatever's left of Wyoming, Colorado and Montana.
my apologies.
Okay, then in all seriousness, let's discount purchases, so no Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, parts of; Minnesota, the Dakotas, New Mexico, Texas, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Louisiana and Alaska.
This blocks western settlement, so with a bit of help from other factors caused by a weaker USA we lose Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and California.
that loses the Pacific, so no Hawaii.
so what? 26 states? something like that. Basically, King of Malta's scenario.
Okay, then in all seriousness, let's discount purchases, so no Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, parts of; Minnesota, the Dakotas, New Mexico, Texas, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Louisiana and Alaska.
This blocks western settlement, so with a bit of help from other factors caused by a weaker USA we lose Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and California.
that loses the Pacific, so no Hawaii.
so what? 26 states? something like that. Basically, King of Malta's scenario.
You can also easily cut out the old northwest, meaning you lost Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota through British influence in the region.
Florida could also be taken out if you remove Jackson and his occupation of the territory
NothingNow
Banned
Easily. And that'd leave you with something kinda like this at a bare minimum, excluding Vermont, which was kinda up in the air for a bit. Surely we can shave some more of that off.
Well, we can expect Virginia and W. Virginia to be one state as well. Also Virginia considered Kentucky and Tennessee as apart of their state till the Federal government forced them to remove their claims. Put them together and we have a Super Virginia!
You could get even smaller after that: break off all the slave states to the south of Pennsylvania, and also New England. So that leaves a United States of America composed of three states: Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey.