Small Steps, Giant Leaps: An Alternate History of the Space Age
- Thread starter ThatCallisto
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Does Soyuz have enough reserve delta-v to do that in a reasonable/survivable timeframe?
No idea - but it's at the very least something to consider. Possibly, they'd be doing it after the CM had been separated from the remains of the Service Module (using the Apollo docking system to let them tug the CM free), and then potentially steering Apollo so the capsule is heat-shield first (ie., heat-shield is pointed towards retrograde) and then carefully backing the adapter away from the CM, ditching it, and then using the APAS' wideness to catch the nose of the Apollo CM and push it into a de-orbit trajectory.
This is sounding very Kerbal, but it at least sounds like an idea to think about for the folks on the ground.
True, and given this is a Low Earth Orbit mission, that might even be sufficient for mission abort - although depending on how intact the rest of their equipment might be, they might still need help from the Soviet section of the mission to conduct that abort (even just as "here's where we are in the orbit, here's how long until the abort burn needs to be conducted, here's how long you'll need to burn").
Not to say that it's the solution we're actually doing, but you're overthinking it. They could detach the SM while the CM was still docked and do the deorbit burn before the CM detaches. Then they can flip around after the burn, make sure the CM is on the right heading, and only then undock, ditch the Docking Module, and proceed with their own reentry.
Pangur
Donor
The docking module or it plus Soyuz functions as the Lunar Module/Apollo 13 OTL ? I think the situation is like this, SM is stuffed and they are going to be short of both Oxygen and power. They need to de-orbit and return to Earth ASAP, That been the case then its a few questions, when is the first window when they they descend to Earth, does NASA care that much what ocean they land it (assuming weather is OK and they can get recovery ships on scene? how much oxygen is required by all of them for both the previous and to get Soyuz home safe?
They could do that, yes. But Ash's comment was in response to the question of whether Soyuz has enough delta-v for the job. Two tonnes of Docking Module might make a difference, no?
That said, I would also question the wisdom of attempting to push the CM without the Docking Module.
All dramatic!
Time for some heroic space walking and gaffa tape?
Wonder if the Soyuz capsule can squeeze in 3 more people?
Are they high enough orbit to reach a space station?
The inquiry on this is going to be huge- people on both sides will call 'sabotage' even though it is not possible.
Time for some heroic space walking and gaffa tape?
Wonder if the Soyuz capsule can squeeze in 3 more people?
Are they high enough orbit to reach a space station?
The inquiry on this is going to be huge- people on both sides will call 'sabotage' even though it is not possible.
They're in the right orbital inclination to reach Zarya 2, but the problem is the Almaz/DOS stations at this time still only have one docking port, and of the wrong type (SSVP instead of APAS). Certainly something to consider, if they have enough fuel and can figure out how to board. Stay tuned...
The "right" docking port is still attached to the front of Soyuz at this point the issue is can Soyuz drag it and the Apollo CM that far which I doubt. At a guess if Apollo can't use it's RCS to de-orbit they may have to trust Soyuz to do some of the labor and detach the CM from the SM, do a de-orbit burn and then detach the CM from the docking adapter. Then have Soyuz discard the docking adapter and either boost up to a point where they can reenter or use an alternate landing zone. The main question is how much time does Apollo have?
Randy
Well, no, the front of Soyuz has an APAS-75 port:
And Zarya 2 has an SSVP drogue port:
Sadly the docking ports are incompatible.
Well, no, the front of Soyuz has an APAS-75 port:
And Zarya 2 has an SSVP drogue port:
View attachment 768699
Sadly the docking ports are incompatible.
Thought the Zara 2 was supported by Soyuz here which would mean it had a way to dock a Soyuz?
Randy
It is, but the Apollo-Soyuz Soyuz and the station Soyuz have different docking ports- APAS for Apollo-Soyuz and an SSVP probe port for station Soyuz.
As a side note, we haven't gone over the successors to Zarya 1 in a post yet, but Zarya 2 is the cover name for the first actually operational Almaz station, with Zarya 3 planned to be the next civilian station. The military would let foreign astronauts board if their lives were in jeopardy (pursuant to the Outer Space Treaty), but some uncomfortable questions might be raised afterward- assuming that they go for the station and can figure out how to get there and board without a compatible docking port.
A minor point of correction here - it'd be Zarya 3 at this point, as we're past Zarya 2. The latter part of the Zarya station program and plans for the future will be covered in the next Interlude.
One thought regarding Zarya 3 - they might not have the right docking adapters, but does Zarya have a usable airlock or other external hatch? Absolute worst case scenario, they could maybe jury-rig EVA suits out of what they've got on hand, then EVA into Zarya - either to use its life support to keep them alive long enough for rescue, or to scavenge it for supplies to keep their spacecraft alive.
Zarya 3 does have an airlock, and there shouldn't be a need to jury-rig since the Apollo crew have their A7LBs anyway for launch and entry.
I just caught up on this great timeline over a couple of days.
Apollo 13 in orbit! At least it'll be easier to recover from (or it should be), especially with Soyuz attached.
In fact, don't think I've seen this particular twist on it before...
Keep up the good work, guys... um, peoples!
Apollo 13 in orbit! At least it'll be easier to recover from (or it should be), especially with Soyuz attached.
In fact, don't think I've seen this particular twist on it before...
Keep up the good work, guys... um, peoples!