Slow Drift to War Europe 1984

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Jukra

Major Clark said:
Using bioweapons is similar to throwing a nuclear hand grenade. It will come back and get you. Once a biological is released it starts to mutate. It will change in ways that cannot be controlled. Any immunization given for it in stage zero may not work in stage one. Using any bioweapon is like throwing dice in a crapgame, you could throw a 7 or an 11, you might also throw snake eyes (two 1s).
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What you write is entirely reasonable. Nevertheless, it is a historical fact that Soviet Union had an extensive bioweapons program especially in 1970's and 1980's and I see no reason why they would not be used in a scenario where all gloves have been taken off.
 

Farmer12

James G - The Soviet Union would care just enough to make sure they had enough people to do their dirty work and not overstretch the food supply.

Major Clark - I agree biowarfare weapons are two edged weapons. As for the process of mutation I did not think of that so much but you do have a point.
 

Farmer12

RetiredCdnTanker- Canadian Armored units the Royal Canadian Dragoons and I am using the 8th Canadian Hussar Princess Louise. I may have need of two or three unit ID's. Any suggestions
 

Farmer12

Jukra- Things will go downhill how much is hard to say but desperation will make a lot of things that normally are not acceptable could become acceptable.
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
@Farmer12

I made this the other day for my 1984 war story. Feel free to use as much as you want. Its pretty accurate (I hope).
James G said:
REGULAR FORCE

1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group
[Stationed across Alberta]
1st Battalion, The Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry – mechanised infantry in M-113s
3rd Battalion, The Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry – mechanised infantry in M-113s
The Lord Strathcona’s Royal Canadian Horse – light armoured force with Cougars & Lynxs

4 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group
[Deployed in southern West Germany]
1er Bataillon, le Royal 22e Regiment – mechanised infantry in M-113s
2nd Battalion, The Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry – mechanised infantry in M-113s
The Royal Canadian Dragoons – heavy armoured force with Leopard C-1s & Lynxs

5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group
[Stationed in Quebec and New Brunswick]
2e Bataillon, le Royal 22e Regiment – motorised infantry in Grizzlys
2nd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment – mechanised infantry in M-113s
3e Bataillon, le Royal 22e Regiment – motorised infantry in Grizzlys
12e Regiment Blinde du Canada – light armoured force with Cougars & Lynxs

Special Service Force
[Stationed in Ontario]
1st Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment – motorised infantry in Grizzlys
3rd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment – motorised infantry in Grizzlys
The 8th Canadian Hussars – heavy/light armoured force with Leopard C-1s & Cougars & Lynxs
The Canadian Airborne Regiment – parachute & airmobile dismounted infantry


PRIMARY RESERVE
{Battalion-sized units nationwide in name. BUT in reality, most are at company-strength. Units marked ‘*’ are at higher readiness, up to as much as two companies. All are lightly armed regardless of strength.}

Primary Reserve units in Alberta
Armoured units: The King’s Own Calgary Regiment / *The South Alberta Light Horse*
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Calgary Highlanders / *1st Battalion, The Loyal Edmonton Regiment*

Primary Reserve units in British Columbia
Armoured units: The British Columbia Dragoons / The British Columbia Regiment
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Canadian Scottish Regiment / 1st Battalion, The Rocky Mountain Rangers / *1st Battalion, The Royal Westminster Regiment* / 1st Battalion, The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada

Primary Reserve units in Manitoba
Armoured units: *The Fort Garry Horse*
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada / 1st Battalion, The Royal Winnipeg Rifles

Primary Reserve units in New Brunswick
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Royal New Brunswick Regiment / 2nd Battalion, The Royal New Brunswick Regiment

Primary Reserve units in Newfoundland & Labrador
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Royal Newfoundland Regiment / 2nd Battalion, The Royal Newfoundland Regiment

Primary Reserve units in Nova Scotia
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Nova Scotia Highlanders / 1st Battalion, The Princess Louise’s Fusiliers / 2nd Battalion, The Nova Scotia Highlanders

Primary Reserve units in Ontario
Armoured units: The 1st Hussars / The Elgin Regiment / *The Governor General’s Horse Guards* / The Ontario Regiment / The Queen’s York Rangers / The Windsor Regiment
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The 48th Highlanders of Canada / 1st Battalion, The Algonquin Regiment / 1st Battalion, The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders of Canada / 1st Battalion, The Brockville Rifles / 1st Battalion, The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa / 1st Battalion, The Essex & Kent Scottish Regiment / *1st Battalion, The Governor General’s Foot Guards* / 1st Battalion, The Grey & Simcoe Foresters / 1st Battalion, The Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment / 1st Battalion, The Lake Superior Scottish Regiment / 1st Battalion, The Lincoln & Welland Regiment / 1st Battalion, The Lorne Scots / 1st Battalion, The Princess of Wales’ Own Regiment / *1st Battalion, The Queen’s Own Rifles of Canada* / 1st Battalion, The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry / 1st Battalion, The Royal Highland Fusiliers of Canada / 1st Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Canada / 1st Battalion, The Stormont, Dundas & Glengarry Highlanders / 1st Battalion, The Toronto Scottish Regiment / 2nd Battalion, The Royal Irish Regiment of Canada / 4th Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment

Primary Reserve units in Prince Edward Island
Armoured units: The Prince Edward Island Regiment

Primary Reserve units in Quebec
Armoured units: le Regiment de Hull / The Royal Canadian Hussars / The Sherbrooke Hussars
Infantry units: *1st Battalion, The Black Watch of Canada* / *1st Battalion, The Canadian Grenadier Guards* / 1er Bataillon, les Fusiliers Mont-Royal / 1er Bataillon, les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke / 1er Bataillon, les Fusiliers St.-Laurent / 1er Bataillon, le Regiment de la Chaudiere / 1er Bataillon, le Regiment de Maisonneuve / *1er Bataillon, le Regiment de Saguenay* / 1st Battalion, The Royal Montreal Regiment / 1er Bataillon, les Voltigeurs de Quebec / 4e Bataillon, le Royal 22e Regiment / 6e Bataillon, le Royal 22e Regiment

Primary Reserve units in Saskatchewan
Armoured units: The Saskatchewan Dragoons
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The North Saskatchewan Regiment / 1st Battalion, The Royal Regina Rifles

Primary Reserve units in the Canadian Territories
Infantry units: 1st Battalion, The Canadian Rangers
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RetiredCdntanker

Farmer12 said:
RetiredCdnTanker- Canadian Armored units the Royal Canadian Dragoons and I am using the 8th Canadian Hussar Princess Louise. I may have need of two or three unit ID's. Any suggestions
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Beat to the punch by James G.
Small note, 3 PPCLI (1 CMBG) were based on Vancouver Island, and were primarily equipped with Grizzly.
 

Farmer12

Well the US military has an order of precedence with its units like with the divisions so if division is organized this division with its battle honors would be utilize before say another. Say like for instance the King Own Calgary regiment has a more storied history than the 1st Hussar or would maybe one regiment from Quebec like the Le Regiment de Hull would have its battle honors used by a new tank regiment and one would be English. The idea to use a much revered regimental title for a newly formed regiment to give at least a little sense of history. Other wise it is sort of like picking a unit title out of a hat, with no concern about building some sort of esprit de corp. I now it sound silly but its like the US not having a 7th cavalry or the British Army not having a Coldstream Guards.
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
Farmer12 said:
Well the US military has an order of precedence with its units like with the divisions so if division is organized this division with its battle honors would be utilize before say another. Say like for instance the King Own Calgary regiment has a more storied history than the 1st Hussar or would maybe one regiment from Quebec like the Le Regiment de Hull would have its battle honors used by a new tank regiment and one would be English. The idea to use a much revered regimental title for a newly formed regiment to give at least a little sense of history. Other wise it is sort of like picking a unit title out of a hat, with no concern about building some sort of esprit de corp. I now it sound silly but its like the US not having a 7th cavalry or the British Army not having a Coldstream Guards.
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I think I know what you mean: an order of precedence.
Try this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces_order_of_precedence
It doesn't match exactly to the list I have due to changes made in the past thirty years (Halifax Rifles a major example) but it should give you an idea. Those Primary reserve units I added an asterisk too would be a good start to build on otherwise. In the 80s, the Canadians were thinking of brining the Fort Garry Horse up to full strength as part of the Active Force too for an armoured unit. Infantry wise, I'd suggest you go with 1-4 on that wiki list.
 

sloreck

You're going to get a lot of disease issues after nuclear strikes even before any bioweapons are used. Waterborne diseases will be the first to appear, others like typhus (vector borne) will appear a little later. Something like cholera won't be seen to any extent in "first world" countries quickly, as there is little reservoir existing in those countries, you'll see that explode in less developed countries. Most resources to keep water purification going, medications, vaccines are not produced locally but rather come from the USA and Europe and to the extent the USA and Europe are still producing any of this it certainly won't be exported.

"Blowback" of biological weapons to the USSR can be contained for a variety of reasons. Something released in the USA or North/South America is not going to come back to the USSR as that would require an infected person or vector (insect etc) to carry it. Diseases in Europe or China have a higher chance of leakage, however how many Chinese will be coming across the border to an irradiated USSR. In terms of mutation, really the major issue is the development of antibiotic resistance. The key thing is that the folks who unleash biological weapons do a good bit of research to ensure that they have the appropriate vaccines and medications to protect those members of their society they want to protect.
 

Farmer12

James G that is what I was looking for. Thank you It is sort of embarrassing it was in Wikipedia and I did not find it.

Slorek You are correct in what you say and there will have been some vaccination programs to protect from some of the diseases develop. Biowarfare attacks will happen, to tell the truth I would be less worried by the use of ICBM's transport the Bioweapons since those attacks would be more localized unlike the use of airborne attacks carried out by transport planes spraying bioweapons out over the land. As for the other diseases that will be a fact of life in a post nuclear world. With one major difference, we have knowledge of how to fight those disease and in many case have the ability to make in small quantities of antibiotics in a lab.

One comment real life show an example of preparation for biowarfare. I have seen news reports that the North Korea soldier who recently defected had evidence that he had been vaccinated for Anthrax.
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
Farmer12 said:
James G that is what I was looking for. Thank you It is sort of embarrassing it was in Wikipedia and I did not find it.
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Don't be. It's not something easy to search for. I only know these things because I have a crazy obsession.

Waiting for you to get your story going again!
 

Farmer12

I wanted a bit of a break. Also I wanted to finish July its extremely complicated and not putting out more post for the moment makes that effort a lot easier. July also lays the foundation for the attempt to end the crisis. But when a fuse is lit in a powder keg just cutting the fuse and tossing it off to one side may just mean the fuse lands on a different power keg.
 

sloreck

Part of the problem with bioweapons is the delivery. Spray, gravity bombs (like variations on the US "weteye") work pretty well - ICBM is very problematic as you would need a very high degree of heat protection, and also the issue of dispersal as a bursting charge to spread the contents would inactivate much if not all of the contents. IMHO in 1984 (and at present) the most effective bioweapon would be smallpox. Smallpox is roughly 30% mortality, 5% significant morbidity and patients require a lot of nursing care and it is highly contagious.
 

Farmer12

slorek For locations like Africa, South America or Australian the threat of biowarfare attacks are nearly impossible unless the Soviet Union uses ICBM's. But ICBM's are like you said problematic so the danger of a biowarfare attack would be extremely unlikely. While anything that is in the range of bombers and or transports spraying bioweapons would be attacked. The United States could get hit but it depends on whether the Soviet Union has plane with the range to carry out the attacks. Also how well what left of NORAD defends against any attempted penetrations. But small pox is just one of the possible bioweapons to be used.
 
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