Slow Drift to War Europe 1984

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Farmer12, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    When will the first draftees be available for replacements in infantry, and likewise draftees from the medical professions as well as other specilalsts (lawyers, certain scientists/engineers who can go through an OCS and be useful on duty somewhere.
     
  2. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    sloreck the first draft will be in early august with first draftees showing up about two weeks later. The units to do the training are organized and ready to go but the draft boards have to organized. But draft centers able to handle large numbers of draftees have to be found and organized. Then we would look at the standard training times basic is if i remember right eight weeks and infantry training would be another eight weeks. So unless they are already in the pipeline replacements will almost exclusively come from prior service troops for the first four months unless they cut corners in training. Highly since a poorly trained infantryman dies very quickly and takes others with him.
     
  3. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    FYI for medical professionals and folks like lawyers they go through a 2-3 week OCS, after which the medical folks at least could be sent to some fixed facility in the USA. Before they could go overseas, they would need extra training. Things like field training, chemical war training both personal and treating casualties and all sorts of stuff. So, IMHO the earliest you'd see medical folks actually arriving anywhere would be 4-6 weeks after they get a draft notice. This is like doctors, dentists, nurses, etc - and in 1984 all male. any female medical folks would be volunteers so probably have had some of these already (in addition to any male volunteers).

    For some time already the CRAF program has been going full bore - this is using civilian airliners flown by civilian personnel for troop and cargo movement (personal note I flew to/from Saudi Arabia during Desert Shield/Desert Storm that way). Between this and the recall of reserve or recently discharged pilots from airline jobs, civilian airline traffic will have been significantly affected - AMTRAK is doing a land office business and perhaps if the world does not blow up, railroads might get some money for improvement. You could even see some lines now used only for freight or usable but out of service running some passenger service if gas rationing starts.
     
  4. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    The CRAF was mobilized even before the troops were being sent. Given what your telling me then in about the beginning of September the first doctors will appear. But if the number of casualties gets to high some officers in training may be drafted into early service to help with the wave of casualties. Also the VA hospital have not been making it obvious but they have been thinning out the number of patients at the various hospitals.That way some of the casualties will find their way to VA hospitals. By the way thanks for the info on military doctors.
     
  5. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    My pleasure. Let me summarize as to the situation with medical personnel (includes doctors, dentists, nurses, therapists etc) in 1984.

    1. Active duty: this is obvious however OTL there were significant shortage is wartime critical specialties as the last Berry Plan doctors had pretty much left unless they had decided on a military career (very few).
    2. Reserves: again short overall and in critical specialties. Those in the "active reserve" would be called up with their units and/or scooped up to fill holes ASAP. The "standby reserve" folks, not drilling but still on the books, could be called up with some delays in finding them (literally) and then ensuring they were not medically disqualified. They would go to fill holes, may need some retraining
    3. Retirees and recently released from active duty: Like the standby reserve, find them, ensure they are not medically disqualified, and plug them in. Probably need some retraining if deployed.
    4. "Officers in training": Until an MD has completed at least one year of postgraduate training (internship) they can't be used as doctors and won't be touched (like WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam). Those doctors in PG training, whether in military hospitals or in civilian programs would be called to active service under the following scheme - those who had completed >50% of their PG training would be assigned as specialists in their area, those with <50% PG training would be assigned as general medical officers (GMOs) & all PG training programs in military hospitals except for internships would be suspended. This would also go for folks like dentists or specialist nurses in PG training. The folks in training would generally be people who had taken a scholarship in return for service payback.
    5. Draftees: As discussed. Unlike categories 1-4 these would only be males as there was no legal authority to draft females. As an interesting point, while those with previous service and no remaining obligation were exempt from the draft under law, if you served previously as other than a doctor/dentist you could be drafted again as a medical professional.
    6. Volunteers: Like with draftees, these folks need to be professionally vetted and then go through the "knife and fork" OCS before assignment at a minimum, so roughly 4+ weeks from recruitment to first duty station. In this category, both males and females in all specialties would be coming in.

    In 1984 there were increasing numbers of females in medical and dental practice compared with the 1960s, although still a relatively small percentage and more females in these jobs in the armed forces than before or in scholarship programs. However there were still limitations on what sorts of units they could be assigned to although like in the past field hospitals were open and now some ships. Smaller field medical units and most ships were still off limits for females. The number of males in the nursing profession in 1984 was much smaller than in 2018 and absent the draft other than scholarship students this would require significant volunteerism. This also applies for physical/occupational therapists etc.

    Another issue in 1984 was that due to the shortage of American physicians going in the military, there were a significant number of foreign medical graduates who were non-citizens in the military. This could potentially cause problems with deployability, concerns over security issues etc.

    On a personal note at this time I was finishing my PG training in orthopaedic surgery (6/84) and was to begin a fellowship in hand/microsurgery (7/84 for a year). I had 5 years previous service as a line officer (Navy) before med school and was in the reserves in a flex drill program for residents. I would have been snapped up in a New York minute and most liely assigned to a field hospital unit of whatever size deployed in support of the Marines due to my medical specialty, and previous experience...
     
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  6. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    When i said Doctors that have not completed training. I meant officer training not medical training. He spent one week so far in officer training but has not complete his training as an officer and is put into a hospital to fill in gaps in medical staff.

    Foreigners in military could be used to fill out US hospitals allowing other personnel to be sent overseas. As for draft and females well we are screwed and will have to make do as best we can since it is highly unlikely that the Senate and Congress would approve of drafting females.
     
  7. ferdi254 Well-Known Member

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    Farmer there was no cash crunch on internal spending. Think of WW1 Germany had no real trouble financing it as long as it was not spending on foreign goods.

    So for own people just print rubles as Germany did in both WWs.

    Why the USSR was broke was because it did take loans in USD to pay for better living circumstances for WP states and was not able to keep that up.
     
  8. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    YThe OCS for doctors is only 2-3 weeks, however by law they have to have it before they can be assigned anywhere even in CONUS.
     
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  9. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    sloreck I imagine like everything else when you have massive surplus wounded with a shortage of doctors you find away around the rules. Also i remember a Captain telling me an old army expression, He who lives by the regs goes down by the regs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 2:15 PM
  10. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    ferdi254- What your forgetting is that massive number of men have been mobilized disrupting production all in sectors of industry and that massive numbers of trucks have be taken out of the economy and the railroads have a priority of shipping troops, equipment and supplies to eastern Europe. While one of the major sources of revenue is oil. I should have mentioned it but Western Europe froze payments on oil until the crisis is over. At the same time military spending has shot up. They cannot print rubles fast enough in this situation. Also unlike during the World Wars the economy was already in trouble prior to the crisis. So things have just sped up. With all of the factors.
     
  11. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    "Better to ask forgiveness than permission" I have used that myself in the military, and agree rules will be bent once the feces has hit the rotating ventilator, until then nope. Skipping legally mandated training before fighting breaks out would be something the "peace" faction would trumpet as "proof" that Reagan is planning a war.

    The problem is/would be that pushing folks from the induction center to a hospital only helps a little bit. The big problem is going to be at the pointy end. The "golden hour" you hear about in trauma care is very real. Its not definitive surgery, but "damage control" surgery and resuscitation that needs to be done very quickly, major fixing can be done later. A point that folks tend to forget about "medical" is that casualties, often a lot, happen on minute one and that is when you need to have adequate systems (including personnel and equipment) in place. "Just in time" inventory or personnel does not work for trauma care.

    If fighting happens, and things don't involve a lot of instant sunshine right away, I would bet that the same folks that are/will dig their heels in about pumping up medical support by getting new folks in now and trained BEFORE bullets fly will be the first to complain with headlines 'AMERICAN BOYS DIE DUE TO INADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE".
     
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