Slow Drift to War Europe 1984

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Farmer12, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    The thing about the draft in the USA is that waiting until the bullets begin to fly is not a good idea. It will take time once the "go" button is first before the first group arrives at their training center. If things go without a war, they can be discharged, if not well they are needed. If it comes to nukes, even soldiers who have just finished basic (or almost there) can be used for the many purposes they would be needed for. In a post nuclear attack America, the government can't have enough trained and disciplined forces to try and hold things together.
     
  2. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    It is not a matter of waiting it is more a matter of putting the system necessary to draft people, do the physicals and then send them to training.
     
  3. terv Well-Known Member

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    sloreck, in 1984 would the navy have enough doctors to cover both active units and the new medical units to cover the additional marine and naval units. plus what could the navy use to increase the naval enlisted training centers.
     
  4. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    @ terv : OTL in 1984 the US military was in the hurt locker for medical personnel (doctors, nurses, dentists). After the draft was ended in 1973 there were still doctors/dentists who had signed contracts under the Berry Plan (deferring entry until completion of advanced training) who were providing an input of physicians, especially specialists through the late 1970s. By 1984 essentially all of the Berry Plan/draftee docs who did not decide to make the military a career (very very few) had left. The military medical school (USU) graduated its first class in 1980, but none of those folks would have finished residency in any surgical specialty by 1984 although many could have completed non-surgical training, and classes 1980-83 would have completed internships and thus be ready to serve as battalion surgeons, docs on smaller ships etc. The HPSP scholarship programs began in the early 70s with the end of the draft, where you got medical school paid for in return for a service obligation (usually 3-4 years). Those programs got off to a slow start and had many unfilled slots especially right after Vietnam, so the number of doctors from those programs who were fully trained and in the service by 1984 was not large although growing. You have to remember that from starting medical school to completing training in a surgical field (wartime critical specialties) it is 9-11 years, so someone who started medical school in 1974 would just have completed their surgical training June 30, 1983 at the soonest.

    There were also various programs encouraging docs to join the reserves/guard which started a little later, these were also under subscribed. The plans were, in case of a scenario like ITTL, at least for the Navy (and I assume the other services), was for all obligated docs (scholarship etc) in residency training would be pulled to active duty. If they had completed over 50% of their residency training they would be assigned in their specialty, if not they would be assigned as GMOs (general medical officers). Active duty docs would be pulled to their mobilization billets, and their place taken by reservists in "backfill" units, and eventually drafted docs.(1) Military medical facilities would ramp down all non-military care with dependents and retirees being sent to civilian doctors, the VA would be reserving facilities for casualties as well.

    As far as the Naval Training Centers (boot camps) physical facilities that are under utilized or mothballed would be opened up, training schedules would be compressed, time off/days off would be reduced/eliminated. This also goes for post boot camp training such as Hospital Corps "A" school etc.

    Across the spectrum, recently released from active duty and retired personnel would be recalled (they can be legally) and would be slotted in where needed, retired enlisted especially would be used to augment staffs at training facilities. Naturally there will be retired/recently released who will be volunteering. The problem is even eliminating days off and compressing the schedule, to train a corpsman (for example) still takes months.

    (1) According to law, you can't send someone overseas until they have had a minimum number of days in uniform (180 if I remember correctly), and officers must attend an OCS, even the brief "knife and fork" course for docs, lawyers, etc. What this means functionally is that it will take time for a drafted doctor to be inducted, sent to even a short (2-4 week) OCS, and then report to his first duty station which would be a facility in the USA. Even if the time in uniform rules for deployment are waived, any doctor being sent to a field unit or ship will need some training before he/she goes to be able to function in that environment - otherwise they are useless. What all of this means functionally is that once the military has pulled in everyone on the books not on active duty (reservists, retirees, trainees, etc) there is going to be a delay of 2-3 months from the start of the draft before any docs start showing up at their first duty station at a stateside hospital. The nurse situation is as bad or worse, as women are not draftable, and therefor you only get volunteers or drafted male nurses to augment those on active duty or in the reserves.
     
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  5. terv Well-Known Member

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    sloreck, in 1984 what would be the smallest ship to have doctor onboard also to the author how big are the 5th and 6th marine divisions are they able the put a reginmental landing team each into the field or a light division size force into the field
     
  6. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    terv- the 5th Marine division is roughly brigade strength, but would suffer problems with unit cohesion and shortages of key personal and some equipment shorteds. While the 6th Marine division is in greater strength one brigade should be available on short notice but with problems similar to the 5th Marine Division problems with unit cohesion, shortages of key personal and equipment. Although the marines had stockpiled a fair amount of equipment to be used when more MAU's were created but there is not enough equipment to equip a full strength Marine division. The two Marine division can fight but they would not be up to the quality of the rest of the Marine Corp fighting forces at this time. Two brigade would be able to fight if necessary while troops forming the second brigade of the 6th Marine is just being formed and could not be relied upon in a battle to any great degree.
     
  7. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    @ tev: In peacetime all amphibs will have doctors, as well as carriers and crusisers. In wartime you'll want MDs on smaller ships, rather than just independent duty corpsmen or PAs. Probably destroyers and even frigates might have doctors on board - the question is how many doctors might be available for duty on smaller ships to replace IDCs or PAs (who might stay on board as well). Submarines usually do not have an MD on board, IDCs or PAs are standard. Frankly for subs, things either go well or they go to the bottom...
     
  8. USN vet Well-Known Member

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    Sloreck, I was on a cruiser in the 90s. No MD for us, just an IDC Chief and 3 or 4 HMs.
     
  9. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    was thinking of earlier...but for wartime would want a doc in addition
     
  10. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    Hamburg
    The other news was the arrival of the 28th infantry division with 58th and 73rd infantry brigade reinforced were to be unloaded. The newly arrived units were assigned to the defense of Denmark. The plan was that these units would be located in defensive positions behind the Kiel Canal. Then if the Soviet Army advanced to this canal the units would be used to protect the Denmark’s southern flank.

    London The hardline speech by Gromyko had caught everyone by surprise. Margaret Thatcher was not happy. She wanted the Soviet Union and the world to know where she stood. The first question was where the three of the newly formed divisions ready for duty. The army response cautious, while the divisions were formed they still lacked certain critically needed units especially artillery. The overall unit cohesion on the divisional level was not as good as the rest of the Army. While most of the units in the new divisions were from regular and territorial units. The newly formed armored units were still a little on the brittle side. While the support units were mostly newly organized units and just as brittle if not more than the tank battalions.

    Thatcher listened to what she had been told and then she told the assembled officers, **I will go to those tank units and speak with them. Let them know they have been heard. I will let them know that I appreciate their loyalty to their original regiments. But I need them to fight as hard for their new regiment’s as I know they would fight for their old regiments. I will ask the Queen other members Royal family to take part in the presentations of the Colors Ceremony. We will also get the veteran associations for the various battalions to attend the ceremonies and with luck arranging for live TV coverage. **

    Then Prime Minister Thatcher announced that the three divisions should be sent to West Germany as soon as possible. The 43rd Wessex division had some additional training to undergo would be going to. It would be the last division to be sent but it was going to Europe. But the Army was actually happy with the divisions progress. The Territorials had made every effort to show that they were the equal of any regular battalion or brigade. They were equally proud of their division, it was and always had been a Territorial division. At the same time the 1st Airborne division was now designated at the United Kingdom strategic reserve.

    Washington Reagan announced that his decision to keep on sending troops to Europe was the correct one. He pointed out that the United States had agreed attend the peace conference without preconditions. But he announced that one the 101st division had completed it movement to Europe the 47th Infantry division would be headed for Europe. As well as the 163rd Cavalry Regiment. He also announced that the National Disaster Medical System would be activated. Behind the scenes he sent a message to the Canadian Prime Minister asking that the 3rd brigade be sent to Europe on the RO/RO ships on their next run.

    At the same time Senator Kennedy stood in front of the press denouncing Reagans ceaseless hostility toward the Soviet Union. While Mondale was making a campaign stop in New York telling a watching crowd of people that if Reagan had not been president this crisis could have been averted that all the money, material and effort spent on the ongoing crisis would not have been wasted in the mobilization of NATO’s forces.

    The various TV channels as well as CNN and newspapers went on the offensive with loud and scary headlines. But the effect on the population of American it did cause some strengthening of the peace movement but it would not enough to change Reagans policies.

    Ottawa
    In Canada the announcement by the Soviet Union that Canada was supposed to hand over ten percent of the years grain harvest did not go down well with the people of Canada. Add on the fact that the Soviet Union had demanded five hundred billion in US dollars and Canada was one of the countries that was supposed pay. The two demands, for moment it took the wind out of the sails of the peace movement at least for now. At the same time the ambassadors West Germany, United Kingdom and France all publicly encouraged the sending of the 3rd brigade to West Germany.

    President Mitterrand of France had arranged a press conference with various Canadian reporters in Frane. He made it clear that the Soviet Union was trying to intimidate the NATO alliance. He then stated that the sending of more troops to Europe was to only way to convince the Soviet Union that it could not make any gains from the crisis in Europe through intimidation. He also stated that newly formed brigade in Quebec should sent to Europe to help France defend Europe against the Soviet Union. It was obvious that in the words of Pat Buchanan on Crossfire commented, **That the Canadian government was facing a full court press from the major members of NATO. **

    The Conservative Party decided early in the day that having a firm stance against the demands made by the Soviet Union. They were the first Canadian Party to state that sending the 3rd brigade to Europe was necessary to show that Canada could not be intimidated.

    While the NDP with the support of a few dissidents from the Liberal Party were firmly opposed. They denounced the blind allegiance to the American war monger Ronald Reagan. They cited the comments made by Ted Kennedy about Reagans war mongering. Claiming that to do so would show the Turner government was under the thumb of Ronald Reagan. As for the requests that troop, be sent to Europe by Canada’s European allies. They responded that Canada needed to think about what was good for Canada not Europe.

    Trudeau went before the press calling for the current Liberal government to send no more troops to Europe. But he now his statements lacked the power they once had. His advising the Governor General to appoint over two hundred Liberals to various patronage positions and forcing the new government to appoint another seventy to similar position had damaged his standing with the people. Add on questions about the qualifications of many of the appointees had done further damage to him and the Liberal Party.

    The new Prime Minister was wondering what to do, he could bow to the peace movement and not send the troops to Europe. That would mean damaging the friendly relations with all of the NATO powers. But to send troops could hurt him politically. But to fail to respond to Soviet Union’s demands on NATO and Canada also could hurt him politically. But Turner slowly realized that responding to the requests for help from NATO allies could easily be defended. All you had to do was to point out that the NATO alliance as a whole asking for more troops. He knew that the Conservatives would be his primary opponents not the NDP and as for the dissident Liberal party members they could be punished as a more appropriate time.


    Turner himself went before the press and announced that he would send the 3rd Brigade to Europe. When he was questioned the press the pushed the idea that he was bowing to the pressure of Ronald Reagan. He responded by naming who had asked him to send troops, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Kohl and other leaders of NATO in Europe had made similar requests. He commented that Reagan’s request to send troops to Europe merely one of many. He also commented that the demands to hand over ten percent of Canada’s grain harvest as well the demands for money had also motivated his decision.

    Valcartier
    Col Delacroix was working on paperwork, he wanted to be out with the troops while they trained. But NDHQ wanted its paperwork done on time and in triplicate. He had the TV on in the background. He was hoping that the Prime Minister would delay the departure of the 3rd brigade. The boys were training sixteen hours a day in fact a lot of the troops were stumbling through their training. But he needed them to know what it was like to training while tired. Sooner or later they could be going into combat with even less sleep. The Prime Minister stood before the press and he announce that the 3rd brigade would be going to Europe.
     
  11. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    2pm Washington DC 28/27 July M+33
    Mike Harper name was before full senate. Then the unexpected happened the Hardline antiwar democrats decided to attack the new Secretary of Agriculture. They argued that approving this appointment of the Secretary of Agriculture. A man who was a retire officer just showed the extent of the militarization of the United States government under Ronald Reagan. Senator Byrd as leader of the Senate Democrats and he was extremely unhappy about the attacks on a decorated officer of the US National Guard was a losing proposition with the American people. He pointed out that the veteran community could only be insulted by the attacks.

    Byrd would stand before the Senate telling the Democratic Senators. He could understand opposing Harper for policies that the Senators disagreed with. But not for his unselfish years of service in the National Guard He would vote for Harper. After an hour or so when the Republicans moved to bring the nomination to a vote. He emphatically supported the motion, afterward when criticized by other Democratic Senators after the vote he told them.

    ** The new Secretary of Agriculture is also a respect defender of the Family Farm. Treating like he is some sort of war monger is stupid. We have an election coming and we don’t need to have those comments made by some of our Senators today appearing in TV or Radio commercials attempting to tie other democratic candidates to some of the comments you gentlemen have made today. ** But Reagan now had two victories, his desired Secretary of Agriculture and fresh evidences of divisions within the Democratic party. Not to mention the comments made by the left wing of the Democratic Party would most assuredly end up on TV and Radio ads to be played in conservative and moderate congressional districts.

    Bonne
    Chancellor Kohl spoke to Canadian TV, **The West German government was pleased with the determination of Canada to follow through with its agreement it had made with West Germany. The interview made clear that Helmut Kohl expected the agreement to be carried out and he even went so far as to encourage the movement of the newly formed 3rd brigade. The interview would be played in Canada the response from the Peace Movement was to complain of West Germanies interference in Canadian internal politics.

    NOON Norfolk Va Inside the United States Ronald Reagan went to Norfolk Virginia to watch the convoy carrying the 35th infantry division equipment left for Greece. The press reported on the departure of the division to Greece. The Press was less interested in security and more interested on headlines. The idea was to pressure the president into stopping the flow of troops to Europe. The evening news would make a big deal out of the Soviet Union agreeing to attend the Peace Conference, while two more divisions of American troops were headed to Europe. The TV news would show plane loads of troops from the 101st flying to Denmark and a convoy laden with the 35th Infantry divisions equipment was also headed to Europe.


    Washington DC Secretary of State George Schultz left for New Delhi he was going to consult with Indira Ghandi about the upcoming peace conference.

    29/28 July Moscow A New Beginning Day 1 Romanov was considering his options, right now it looked like Gorbachev was on top. But he was not giving up, he knew that once Gorbachev took power he would be out. Now he was gathering allies from the Politburo. He was working on their paranoia, Gorbachev was a reformer and some of his comments indicated that he would go after corruption. The problem was he did not have a majority of the Politburo. All the men on his side were solidly on his side, swaying the middle was going to be a bit of a problem. Chebrikov the head of the KGB, had people watching the economists as they worked on their report to the Politburo on the condition of the economy. Those agents were saying that the economists were worried, but they were not saying why. Hopefully on Monday while Gromyko was attending the start of the peace conference the report would blow a hole in Gorbachev’s plan to become First Secretary.

    Gromyko was prepping for the conference, he was actually not too unhappy about the demands the hardliners had put into his instructions. It gave him plenty of things to negotiate away, he realized that the Americans would not pay out any money but he could get a really good deal on grain. Maybe like the first grain deal where the United States basically paid for it. As for the Nuclear freeze, while the democratic candidate was calling for one. Reagan was not and he would not accept any such deal. So that was something that could be negotiated away for some advantage or simply gain a degree of goodwill from the Americans. But this would take time three or four weeks. He needed Gorbachev to make sure he had the time to pull it off. If Gorbachev failed then war could become inevitable.

    10 AM Paris The announcement that the 6 MAB was being sent to Turkey was welcome news add on that the 6th MAB would receive its share of the various supports unit from the 2nd Marine Division. But the Turks had also complained to the French about what they called American favoritism for Greece. Mitterrand and his advisers had decided in part to bolster NATO and at the same time one up the Americans by sending the elite 27th Alpine division to Turkey. The 27th would deploy in a rugged section of Turkish Bulgarian Border helping Turkeys defense of Thrace. The movement would begin in just a few days and it would take a week to ten days. But it was considered a good move both strategically and over time diplomatically. The meeting ended with the leadership of France feeling they had put in a good day’s work. The announcement that the 27th Alpine Division being send to Turkey along with the news that the 6th MAB was headed to Turkey went a long way to calm the Turks down.

    1pm Rotterdam The fast convoy arrived in Rotterdam with latest load of reinforcement, the commentary throughout Europe was less than enthusiastic. Many commentators were now looking forward to a successful peace conference. But the ships were unloaded at a rapid rate, the longshoremen were less interested in politics and more interested in the overtime and bonus’s the American military was paying.

    4pm Montreal The arrival of the ships that had carried over the 5th brigade had arrived and the ships immediately docked. Some additional ships would be added to the convoy and those ships had already been loaded. It was estimated that in less than four days this convoy would be ready to move. At the same time protestors throughout Canada were showing their opposition to the movement of the newly formed 2nd brigade to Europe.


    29/30 July New Beginning Day 2
    Gromyko arrives in New Delhi but says little to the waiting crowd of dignitaries.

    Washington DC. The Sunday morning news shows are full of politicians from both parties, the Republicans defending Reagans orders to continue to send troops and equipment to Europe. The Democratic Party attacking the decision. But everyone knew that Reagan would not listen to the demands of the Democratic Party. So far, his peace through strength policy had worked and the polls showed the American people was in general satisfied with his performance so far during the crisis.


    But the Peace Movement was picking up steam, despite his decision to accept the offer by Indira Ghandi. Reagans decision to keep on sending troops to Europe, upset these protestors. They felt that Reagan was not showing the proper desire for peace. They felt he cold war warrior side was coming out in his decision to keep sending American boys to Europe.
     
  12. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    I wonder what the response of the "peace" movement is/will be to the demands. I can see this splitting the movement as the demands for free grain and a lot of money for the WP mobilization won't sit will with a significant part of the movement - they may see it as an indication of bad faith on the part of the Soviets. OTOH some of the movement will be all for accepting all of the demands up front - trying to emphasize the nuclear freeze/reduction parts (only affecting USA/NATO) while trying to avoid too much about the grain/dollar give away. For sure those who advocate for accepting the demands will be hit with a literal "peace at any price" and "pay the Danegeld, never get rid of the Dane" responses.
     
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  13. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    sloreck- The peace movement will reap to one degree or another what it sows but the fear of nuclear war will keep a large segment of the population on its side.
     
  14. gatordad699 Well-Known Member

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    Jul 3, 2013
    Subs never have an MD. They have 1
    IDC. If a boat is on station the IDC would do his/her best and hope. If able to come off station then perstran them off. Was under the ice and had a chief get appendicitis. Doc just gave him antibiotics and put him in his rack. Chief did fine. There are light holders over the wardroom table for emergency surgery.
     
  15. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 9, 2016
    Chapter 18
    31/30 July New Beginning Day 3
    10am New Delhi
    The first day of the conference, began with speeches from the three delegations, the speeches were given to a large group of diplomats made up of delegations from various concerned nations and as well as the staffs from different nations stationed in New Delhi. The idea was to set the conference on a high note, Indira Ghandi spoke first, **The world wants peace, the world is calling for peace, the world demands peace I believe that a new understanding between the United States and the Soviet Union is necessary. I will not take sides I will be an honest broker between the superpowers.

    I believe that we have a chance of a new direction for the world. That is if the United States and the Soviet Union want to move to peace to a lasting peace. I believe in peace and I believe that if the United States and the Soviet Union commit to a path of peace through disarmament. I believe if we take this path the world will never forget this that the first steps were taken at this conference. The watching diplomats react with a great deal of vigor applauding to Indira Ghandi’s speech. While the members of the press breathlessly reported the speech to the world.

    Secretary of State Schultz, had a more mundane goal, that of bringing the current crisis to an end. His speech was equally short and to the point, **America wants this crisis brought to an end, the world had been brought to the brink of disaster by this crisis. The most serious crisis since the Cuban Missile Crisis. I pledge to the Soviet Union and the world that the United States is not looking to gain any advantages over the Soviet Union. Peace is what we are looking for and peace is what we want. The precrisis status quo is what the United States is looking for. ** The audience was more restrained over the speech from the Secretary of State. But his statements about America wanting peace did make the people react positively.

    Gromyko was ready to let the world know that the Soviet Union did have demands, he viewed the demands as little more than a series of negotiation stances that would be used to gain advantages for the Soviet Union. He knew what he had to say would definitely put a chill on the conference from the start. In fact, he fully expected a hardening of positions from the West. They would likely to respond in anger, but in a month or so he could expect the West to have calm down.

    Gromyko stood up and looked over the gathered group of people, then he began to speak, **As the aggrieved party the Soviet Union is not here to speak of platitudes. We have come here to make our grievances known to the world. What start this crisis were a pair of assassins who murdered the General Secretary Honecker and a number of his associates in cold blood and who then had the run of the city until they finally turned themselves in. **

    Gromyko paused for a moment and then he went on speaking, ** In the name of justice the Soviet Union demands that the two assassins be handed over to East Germany to face trial for those murders. That is the first demand that the Soviet Union was not unexpected. No one was particularly surprised by it.

    **Second because of this crisis brought on by Western meddling in the internal political of East Germany. The Soviet Union was forced to mobilize it force to protect East Germany and our other WARSAW PACT brothers. That forced the Soviet Union to divert resources from the summer harvest and as a result grain was left unharvested in the field of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union fully expects that the Australian, Canada and the United States, as major grain exporting nations handover ten percent of their respective harvests to compensate the people of the Soviet Union for the loss of that grain which would have fed them through the winter. ** The expressions of the people listening was that of shock.

    **Third the Soviet Union demands compensation for the costs of mobilizing both its forces and that of our allies of the Warsaw Pact and the economic damage done the economies of the Warsaw Pact. The exact sum will be made available at a later date. **

    **Fourth, the United States and NATO are to cease the current modernization of NATO’s tactical nuclear weapons in Europe. Also, the United States will sign an agreement limiting the number of these weapons to be deployed inside the United States. That will prevent the deployment of these weapons in large numbers to Europe in the event of another crisis. **

    **Let everyone one understands, that the Soviet Union is adamant that all these demands be met before this crisis will come an end. ** The looks of consternation swept across the faces of diplomats and members of the press. The world press was here to report a quick end of a crisis, but it looked more like that crisis would go on and on. ** The look of consternation of the faces of the listing people allowed Gromyko to know that the demands had been a total surprise. Now while he personally would never had made these demands if he had a choice. He was pretty sure that the could use the demands to get a variety of concessions from the Americans that is in return for the dropping of the demands he had listed or at least everyone but the first that had to be agreed to. Otherwise no leader of the Warsaw Pact would ever again sleep comfortably.


    Secretary Schultz was not happy about the speech, but it was also obvious to him that the Soviet Union was making the harsh demands in the expectation of gaining concessions. But Schultz realized that the Western Alliance would have to take actions to show that it was not intimidated. That meant talking to the various NATO ambassadors with a message sent to the President.


    Indira Ghandi was not happy at all, India was a good friend of the Soviet Union and she had not been warned about the hardline approach that the Soviet Union was going to take. Later today she would speak to Gromyko and ask for an explanation.
     
  16. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 9, 2016
    1pm Moscow The Politburo was finally getting a proper briefing on the current state of the economy. When the Economists entered the expressions on their faces were guarded. In fact, the only good news was the knowledge that Chebrikov had informed them that the desire of the Politburo was a complete and accurate explanation about what was happening to the economy. That meant they needed the Economists to tell the truth. That promise would hopefully protect them when they told the Politburo what the real economic situation was.

    The Economists began their briefing and as the briefing went on the news got worse and worse. The costs of the original Mobilization had been a massive drag on the Economy. It was survivable if the crisis did not last more than a few months. But the mobilization of the additional troops had been a double whammy. The newly mobilized troops had to be paid for, while at the same time the men pulled from the factories, farms mines and all the other jobs slowed the economy down even faster. It reduced the time that disaster would arrive from months to weeks.

    The simple fact was that the massive increase in the outflow of money from the Government to pay for the cost of the mobilization was draining the Government coffers. While the inflow of money was slowing down and in fact drying up. That meant that sooner or later the money flow would dry up and the Soviet Union would not be able to pay its bills. If the crisis lasted to long enough then the Soviet Union could have to make hard choices. Such as choosing between purchasing food or coal for the people of the Soviet Union. That meant the Politburo could have to decide whether the population of the Soviet Union to froze to death or starve to death. The economist where united in one thing the faster the crisis ended the better off the Soviet Union would be.

    The senior economist commented that possibly engaging in massive spending cuts would allow the Soviet Union more flexibility to work its way out of the crisis. Where the spending cuts would come from the economists refused to say, they stated that was a decision for the Politburo.

    The simple truth, was that the Politburo had not realized just how much money was being spent. Even worse was that the something had to be done fast to end the crisis. But even if they ended the crisis they may still run out of money unless they engaged in major spending cuts. What programs should be cut that was a discussion that no one really wanted. Once the economists had left the discussion began, the argument began.

    The Politburo now had a real problem, they could insist that the demands they had Gromyko make as negotiating stances to gain concessions from the United States were now essential demands to keep the Soviet Union from running out of cash. On the other hand, they could order Gromyko to make the best agreement he could and then bring the crisis to end. Then the Politburo could demobilize the military as fast as possible. Then after that they could make the needed cuts that would possibly allow the Soviet Union to survive this unexpected crisis.

    The problem would be gaining a consensus from the Politburo, that was going to be a real problem. The hardliners were not likely going to support the quick end to the crisis if it did the Soviet Union was not reimbursed for the costs of mobilization. But the soft-liners wanted the crisis ended. They knew that the United States and NATO would not agree to reparations. As for the centrists they were wondering which side to support and that would mean they would need to be convinced what approach to take.

    Chernenko decided to move a move, he suggested that first one of the economists who had briefed the Politburo was to be sent to brief Gromyko on that briefing. He also suggested that until the Politburo had decided which way to go Gromyko was not to make any concessions on the initial demands made by the Soviet Union.

    No one had a good argument to oppose what he had suggested so both of his suggestions were approved. The Foreign Ministry was ordered to send the latest instructions. Then the leader of the group of economists was ordered to come back into the room. When the man entered the room, he was visibly nervous. Chernenko quickly informed the man that he needed one of the economist go to New Delhi and brief Gromyko one what the Politburo had been told. The man quickly relaxed, and he volunteered to go himself. That done orders were sent out to arrange a for plane to take the man to New Delhi and also to make arrangements with the Indians for the planes arrival. With those decision made the Politburo ended the meeting with plans to meet again the next day. That would give everyone a chance to think about the new situation.


    The start of the Peace Conference was the big news of the day and Gromyko’s speech was reported and dissected. It took the rest of the world by surprise, no one had expected the Soviet Union to make such harsh demands. Some in the press condemned the demands. While other pointed out that this could just be the Soviet Union’s initial negotiating position. But it did give the NATO nations something to think about.
     
  17. sloreck Grunt Bear

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    Location:
    Midwest
    IMHO the financial crisis for the USSR would not be this severe or rapid. The only need the USSR had for "real" money (hard currency) was to but stuff from the west, food, technology etc. Right now none of that is being sold so that issue is at least temporarily on hold. Internally the Soviet Union can have remaining factory workers become "new Stakhanovites" and put in unpaid overtime. Of course a lot of stuff for the civilians can be cut back, and that capacity used for military needs or some other higher priority. Finally since the Soviets are, for the moment, buying and selling from themselves or within the COMECON, which they control, they can (at least temprorarily) print rubles and through various controls keep the lid on inflation. Sure, there will come a reckoning, but that can be substantially down the road. Every war has been financed in this way - between managed inflation, forced savings ("liberty bonds", war loans, etc). The Russians have a history of tolerated belt tightening of a huge amount, of course once the belt is as tight as it goes they tend to explode - which is something the Politburo will have to watch out for. As long as the population sees this as another "Great Patriotic War" scenario, fine. When that stops...
     
  18. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Well the problem was that the Soviet Union had been running on empty for a quite awhile. The system was also very corrupt and inefficient all of these problems are just adding making the situation worse. What the Economists are say it the money is running out. What they don't say is they do not have a lot of confidence in the ability of the Politburo to salvage the situation. The Economists making report did not even have reliable numbers to go by. They put what numbers they had and made extrapolations from there. Those extrapolations pointed to bankruptcy and is what they reported. The Politburo know things are going down hill, that needs to be factored into their reaction.
     
  19. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Hamburg
    The other news was the arrival of the 28th infantry division with 58th and 73rd infantry brigade reinforced were to be unloaded. The newly arrived units were assigned to the defense of Denmark. The plan was that these units would be located in defensive positions behind the Kiel Canal. Then if the Soviet Army advanced to this canal the units would be used to protect the Denmark’s southern flank.

    London The hardline speech by Gromyko had caught everyone by surprise. Margaret Thatcher was not happy. She wanted the Soviet Union and the world to know where she stood. The first question was where the three of the newly formed divisions ready for duty. The army response cautious, while the divisions were formed they still lacked certain critically needed units especially artillery. The overall unit cohesion on the divisional level was not as good as the rest of the Army. While most of the units in the new divisions were from regular and territorial units. The newly formed armored units were still a little on the brittle side. While the support units were mostly newly organized units and just as brittle if not more than the tank battalions.

    Thatcher listened to what she had been told and then she told the assembled officers, **I will go to those tank units and speak with them. Let them know they have been heard. I will let them know that I appreciate their loyalty to their original regiments. But I need them to fight as hard for their new regiment’s as I know they would fight for their old regiments. **

    Then Prime Minister Thatcher announced that the three divisions should be sent to West Germany as soon as possible. The 43rd Wessex division had some additional training to undergo would be going to. It would be the last division to be sent but it was going to Europe. But the Army was actually happy with the divisions progress. The Territorials had made every effort to show that they were the equal of any regular battalion or brigade. They were equally proud of their division, it was and always had been a Territorial division. At the same time the 1st Airborne division was now designated at the United Kingdom strategic reserve.

    Washington Reagan announced that his decision to keep on sending troops to Europe was the correct one. He pointed out that the United States had agreed attend the peace conference without preconditions. But he announced that one the 101st division had completed it movement to Europe the 47th Infantry division would be headed for Europe. As well as the 163rd Cavalry Regiment. He also announced that the National Disaster Medical System would be activated. Behind the scenes he sent a message to the Canadian Prime Minister asking that the 3rd brigade be sent to Europe on the RO/RO ships on their next run.

    At the same time Senator Kennedy stood in front of the press denouncing Reagans ceaseless hostility toward the Soviet Union. While Mondale was making a campaign stop in New York telling a watching crowd of people that if Reagan had not been president this crisis could have been averted that all the money, material and effort spent on the ongoing crisis would not have been wasted in the mobilization of NATO’s forces.

    The various TV channels as well as CNN and newspapers went on the offensive with loud and scary headlines. But the effect on the population of American it did cause some strengthening of the peace movement but it also had the opposite effect of bringing more people to Reagan's hardline position. The end effect was to increase support of Reagans policies.

    Ottawa
    In Canada the announcement by the Soviet Union that Canada was supposed to hand over ten percent of the years grain harvest did not go down well with the people of Canada. Add on the fact that the Soviet Union had demanded five hundred billion in US dollars and Canada was one of the countries that was supposed pay. The two demands, for moment it took the wind out of the sails of the peace movement at least for now. At the same time the ambassadors West Germany, United Kingdom and France all publicly encouraged the sending of the 3rd brigade to West Germany.

    President Mitterrand of France had arranged a press conference with various Canadian reporters in France. He made it clear that the Soviet Union was trying to intimidate the NATO alliance. He then stated that the sending of more troops to Europe was to only way to convince the Soviet Union that it could not make any gains from the crisis in Europe through intimidation. He also stated that newly formed brigade in Quebec should sent to Europe to help France defend Europe against the Soviet Union. It was obvious that in the words of Pat Buchanan on Crossfire commented, **That the Canadian government was facing a full court press from the major members of NATO. **


    The Conservative Party decided early in the day that having a firm stance against the demands made by the Soviet Union. They were the first Canadian Party to state that sending the 3rd brigade to Europe was necessary to show that Canada could not be intimidated.

    While the NDP with the support of a few dissidents from the Liberal Party were firmly opposed. They denounced the blind allegiance to the American war monger Ronald Reagan. They cited the comments made by Ted Kennedy about Reagans war mongering. Claiming that to do so would show the Turner government was under the thumb of Ronald Reagan. As for the requests that troop, be sent to Europe by Canada’s European allies. They responded that Canada needed to think about what was good for Canada not Europe.

    Trudeau went before the press calling for the current Liberal government to send no more troops to Europe. But he now his statements lacked the power they once had. His advising the Governor General to appoint over two hundred Liberals to various patronage positions and forcing the new government to appoint another seventy to similar position had damaged his standing with the people. Add on questions about the qualifications of many of the appointees had done further damage to him and the Liberal Party.

    The new Prime Minister was wondering what to do, he could bow to the peace movement and not send the troops to Europe. That would mean damaging the friendly relations with all of the NATO powers. But to send troops could hurt him politically. But to fail to respond to Soviet Union’s demands on NATO and Canada also could hurt him politically. But Turner slowly realized that responding to the requests for help from NATO allies could easily be defended. All you had to do was to point out that the NATO alliance as a whole asking for more troops. He knew that the Conservatives would be his primary opponents not the NDP and as for the dissident Liberal party members they could be punished as a more appropriate time.


    Turner himself went before the press and announced that he would send the 3rd Brigade to Europe. When he was questioned the press the pushed the idea that he was bowing to the pressure of Ronald Reagan. He responded by naming who had asked him to send troops, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Kohl and other leaders of NATO in Europe had made similar requests. He commented that Reagan’s request to send troops to Europe merely one of many. He also commented that the demands to hand over ten percent of Canada’s grain harvest as well the demands for money had also motivated his decision.

    Valcartier
    Col Delacroix was working on paperwork, he wanted to be out with the troops while they trained. But NDHQ wanted its paperwork done on time and in triplicate. He had the TV on in the background. He was hoping that the Prime Minister would delay the departure of the 3rd brigade. The boys were training sixteen hours a day in fact a lot of the troops were stumbling through their training. But he needed them to know what it was like to training while tired. Sooner or later they could be going into combat with even less sleep. The Prime Minister stood before the press and he announce that the 3rd brigade would be going to Europe.
     
  20. Farmer12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    1st Aug 31st Jul A new Beginning Day 3
    Townsville Australia The Peleliu with the LST’s Schenectady and Cayuga arrived in the harbor as it took up position with a pair of escorts a Spruance class destroyer the Oldendorf a ship well known to both the Australian and New Zealand Navies. As well as a Perry class frigate Sides the plan was simple the two New Zealand amphibious as well as a pair of destroyers from the Royal New Zealand Navy as well as two Royal Australian Navy to form a new amphibious force. For the price of allowing the Paratroop company of the New Zealand army to become part of the strategic mobile reserve New Zealand now had the ability to move its entire 1st brigade in an amphibious assault.

    New Delhi
    The first real session of the peace conference would in the afternoon, the arrival of the Economist from Moscow would have a chance to brief Gromyko before the actual conference began. Gromyko’s reaction was that of shock. He never realized just how bad the economic situation was. He realized that while the Politburo were debating what to do he would not be there to defend the interests of the Foreign Ministry. Not to mention that fact that with him in New Delhi would mean that his allies would have one less vote on the Politburo. That could sway the whole problem to a solution back by the hardliners. That was disturbing, now the decision for him to hold firm on the demands while the Politburo debated what to do did make sense.


    Moscow
    The sudden arrival of the cash crunch had caught the Politburo totally by surprise. Now they were going to have to make some very hard decisions. One suggestion was made that to cut back on the production of meat animals. The argument was there would be an increase in the amount of meat available during the early part of the cash crunch which could be used to keep the moral of the population up. But it was pointed out that that this would ensure that meat would virtually disappear at a later date in the crisis. That shortage could come at an inopportune time that could simply add on to the troubles of the Soviet Union at a later date.

    The idea of cutting down on foreign aid was to a degree palatable but the loss of influence would rapidly become apparent. The idea that various governments over seas that relied on the foreign aid to stay in power would have to look to the west for foreign aid. Those governments that were not acceptable to the West could find themselves cut off from all aid. Those governments could lose power and government that took over could be hostile to the Soviet Union. Even worse was the idea of cut off funding to the WARSAW Pact nations and the effect that would have on the Soviet Unions strategic situation. Chernenko pointed out that if funding for the WARSAW Pact nations was cut off those governments would collapse. That would mean that governments hostile to the Soviet Union could take over. Germany could end up reunited with Poland ran by Lech Walesa and Solidarity. That cause a negative reaction.

    The day was not one of decision but of finding a way to ignore financial crisis or at least that was what some of the Politburo wanted to do. But Gorbachev was quick to point out that the Politburo needed to fact the reality of the current situation and cuts anywhere and everywhere should be considered.


    Rotterdam
    The fast convoy left the harbor on day late, a variety of minor unexpected repairs had to be made and further repairs would be needed the convoy would be delay in Boston for an extra day or two to take care of those issues.

    Washington DC President Reagan received variety of news, none of it good, the Turks were unhappy about the level of support they had received versus the Greeks. Now they were demanding more reinforcements or they just might sit out the crisis. Then the reports on the needed repairs to the fast convoy when it arrived in Boston were discussed. While the movement of the Canadian Mobile Forces 3rd brigade to Boston was brought up. On the other hand, the Canadians had been honest about not being sure that the whole brigade could be in Boston in just four days that they might need an extra day or two to get the force to Boston.

    Reagan commented, **Well at least one thing good will come out of the delay of the Fast convoy. We can give the Canadians more time to move their 3rd brigade to Boston. ** The rest of the NSC nodded their heads in agreement. It was agreed to have a message sent ASAP to the Canadian National Defense Headquarters informing them of the current situation. A phone call was made and the meeting went on.


    There had been some discussion about sending the two Marine brigades to Europe. But as time went on the Marine Corp were arguing that the two cadre divisions should stay inside the United States until such time at least one of the divisions was up to full strength. The current Marine Corp commandant argued that moving the 6th Marine Divisions back to Camp Pendleton to fill out the divisions troop strength. Stating that this division should be the Pacific Fleets strategic reserve. It will take just about all the equipment the Marine Corp has to bring the 6thup to full strength as possible. The division sill lacked an air wing but it had much of its other equipment.

    Then Weinberger commented, **We still need a strategic reserve of some kind, the 42nd and the 6th was a reinforced brigade with a full complement of equipment and the 5th which full strength brigade, will be that strategic reserve. While the 163rd and the 47th still go to Europe. But I should tell you that we will not begin moving the 47th until the 2nd of August. We have a lot of support units that we need in Europe being moved over by air so the movement. But we still plan moving the 163rd on time. ** Reagan considered what he was being told, he did not like the idea of keeping troops outside Europe but they did a strategic reserve. Then to be told that the latest front combat units was being delayed to move vitally needed support units to Europe forced him to face certain realities. Finally, he nodded his head in agreement but with a comment, **We must be prepared to send more troops if necessary. ** With that the meeting was over.
     
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