Slavicized Eastern Roman Empire

Which would be tolerated when Hell froze over. If one tried, the people of Constantinople are going to back the nearest and fastest claimant, and the guy who is withdrawing won't be able to do a thing about it.

I think the same. Well, maybe something like that would happen if Persians managed to conquer Constantinople between 616 and 626 (because of death of Heraclius or his flight to Carthage)? And the remnants of Empire would reconquer the city and parts of Anatolia later when Persians have troubles with Arabs. I'm basically thinking about transplanting the geopolitical situation from XIII century into VII century. But I'm afraid it's too implausible.
 
Chris S, Elfwine @ guys I think you have started runing circles around each other.

How about we get back to the original question - How best to slavicize an ERE within the limits of historical posibility.


Cheers :)
 
I think the same. Well, maybe something like that would happen if Persians managed to conquer Constantinople between 616 and 626 (because of death of Heraclius or his flight to Carthage)? And the remnants of Empire would reconquer the city and parts of Anatolia later when Persians have troubles with Arabs. I'm basically thinking about transplanting the geopolitical situation from XIII century into VII century. But I'm afraid it's too implausible.

I think it is.

You could definitely get a situation where the Persians wreck the empire. But I don't think it would turn into a Slavic ERE from there.
 
The Persians wrecking the Empire would be an idea, but it won't be a continuation of the ERE if the Slavs conquered it. Rather, it might be a Greco-Slavic version of the Holy Roman Empire.
 
The Persians wrecking the Empire would be an idea, but it won't be a continuation of the ERE if the Slavs conquered it. Rather, it might be a Greco-Slavic version of the Holy Roman Empire.

Given that Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor in the situation where the Pope claimed that the seat of the Caesars was empty and that he had the right to appoint someone to fill it . . .

I don't think something like that happening in the East specifically makes sense. And I'm not sure a Slavic ruler being in a position equivalent to Charlemagne (with Charlemagne's situation removed one way or another) is likely.
 
What we are looking at is not an abrupt halt, but a smooth continuation that does not involve the utter overthrow of the "Roman" system or line. To make that Slavic you have to do what the Greeks did and become te majority population of what is left of the Roman Empire. This would involve either successful Slavic migration into Byzantine lands or the Byzantines had to be much more successful and take alot of Slavic subjects then they could assimilate while allowing for Slavic figures into powerful positions. It would still be Greco-Slavic, but it would be ERE.
 
Well, maybe something like that would happen if Persians managed to conquer Constantinople between 616 and 626 (because of death of Heraclius or his flight to Carthage)?
Under certain circumstances that might be the Avars to take Constantinople. The Persians might get Asian part of the Roman Empire.

You could definitely get a situation where the Persians wreck the empire. But I don't think it would turn into a Slavic ERE from there.
The Persians AND the Avars wreck the Roman Empire.
The Avars get the European part of Empire including Constantinople.
The Slavic subjects of the Avars migrate to the Greek-speaking lands and they became much more Slavic-speaking than in OTL.
In a hundred or so years the Avars become Slavic-speaking for the same reasons as the Bulghars in OTL.
So we've got a big empire which has Slavic as official language and the language of majority of the population.
Of course they are Christians and in a hundred years the Constantinople patriarch crowns the Avar Khan as the Roman Emperor.

So we have the German Roman Empire in the West and the Slavic Roman Empire in the East.

Would the Volga become the new center of administration for the Rus? Assuming butterflies still occur, would there be different religions taking root there? I do know that the Orthodox faith will be chosen among the Avar elite..
I guess the Volga would become the new center of administration for the Rus. And consequently the Rus becomes Muslim. One part of the Rus Scandinavian warrior elite becomes Slavic-speaking - in the North-West. The other part would become Turkic-speaking - in the South-East. So we would have two separate 'Russes': 1) Slavic 2) Turkic. But both are Muslim and related as they have Rurikids as their ruling dynasties.

Kievan_Rus_en3.jpg
 
Assuming that Islam can still make inroads into the Caucasus and Central Asia, but there was one thread that discussed the possibility of a Rus' state becoming Zoroastrian, though that would require a divine miracle for even such a scenario to happen.
 
Although with a PoD for allowing the Avars and Persians to wreck the ERE (sometime in the 7th century), would this butterfly the Arab conquests? I'm not sure if Asparukh's Bulgars would have reached the Balkans at some point, but for a powerful Slavic entity to emerge in the Balkans on the similar level to the Bulgarians, one must make an alliance or conquer the Seven Slavic Tribes of Moesia. IOTL Asparukh was able to forge an alliance with the Seven Slavic Tribes due to the fact that the Byzantines were their common enemy. It could be another nomadic tribe like the Pechenegs, Magyars, Gepids, or Avars.
 
If in this case would the issue between Heraclius and Phocas have been resolved already?
Yep.
In OTL allied with the Avars, the Persians made a final attempt to take Constantinople in 626, but were defeated there.
In my proposed ATL the Avars took Constantinople in 626 with the help of the Persians. That's the POD.
 
And Heraclius was still on the Byzantine throne.
Heraclius was mortally wounded while conducting reconnaissance in force just before the final fatal assault of Constantinople. They say it was the reason why the defenders lost heart.
The emperor ordered his own bodyguard to kill him with a sword in order not to be taken alive by the victorious Avars.
They never found his body though...
 
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