basically what the Tin says, say the CSA wins early in the war, say September 1862, they take DC and force peace, any ways, what would Slavery look like after the war? how long would it last? and how would it end?
Slavery in the CSA
- Thread starter black angel
- Start date
just a note, if you personally think the CSA would fall apart, feel free to say so, and air your thoughts on how that effects slaves/slavery.
Probably when the industrial interests began to become much more efficient than slavery. My guess is that by minimum 1900 they should have abolished it, I voted 1920 because the longest I can see any form of institutionalized slavery lasting on a grand scale.
IMO the South itself would probably rate around second world if it lasted into the 1900s by our standards with an oligarchy of wealthy land owners and industrialists on top and a heaving large mass of slaves and unhappy white poor on the bottom.
The only thing keeping communism in check during this time is heavy propoganda calling it a 'black' ideology and the institutionalized racism in the South will probably keep most whites from adopting it, while they instead will probably seek democratic reforms or a populist movement will spring up somewhere to do away with the 'planter class' on top.
IMO the South itself would probably rate around second world if it lasted into the 1900s by our standards with an oligarchy of wealthy land owners and industrialists on top and a heaving large mass of slaves and unhappy white poor on the bottom.
The only thing keeping communism in check during this time is heavy propoganda calling it a 'black' ideology and the institutionalized racism in the South will probably keep most whites from adopting it, while they instead will probably seek democratic reforms or a populist movement will spring up somewhere to do away with the 'planter class' on top.
I'd say 1900's, that was my vote, although no later than 1920. Around 1900, you had the internal combustion engine coming into use as well as the electric motor. Although they say the cotton gin helped slavery remain as it was, I think with those two new technologies, it would have had the opposite effect? With those machines, you basically have "slaves" that will work all the time as long as you provide fuel/electricity and routine maintenance making them most cost effective and safer to use. As to the status of the freed slaves, it is kind of murky although they would most likely be seen as second class citizens for many years to come, either they will go north to the rump USA or there would be an effort at repatriation back to Africa with incentives such as land and/or money/gold. That's my take.
key to note I think that in the CSA Dred Scott v. Sandford would still stand, so blacks (free and otherwise) would not be citizens of any kind, and I'd guess any post slavery life for blacks in the south would look far more like the Black Codes than Jim Crow or even Apartheid
Color me skeptical that a surviving CSA would last more than a few decades, tops. Unsustainable economics, slave rebellions, an increasingly hostile world --- goodbye Dixieland. So, I voted 1890s. Slavery in the 19th Cent. lasts as long as the CSA does.
At the latest, I think the 1890s. Slave owners would be a minority, and shrinking one at that. Either the government would need to outlaw Slavery in order to obtain allies (losing upper-class support), or a civil war would start, likely either from lower-class whites or blacks (or both) wanting equality. Said civil war being Communist vs. Confederate is optional.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
This may prove useful. Are we talking longest plausible length? And if so, we're talking about chattel slavery, right (not accounting for legal emancipation, followed by half-measures or anything)?
If it's yes to just the latter, then with certain preconditions -- e.g. British pressure is held off;* the CSA is both determined to preserve their "peculiar institution" and willing to implement the needed "reforms" to keep it alive -- I'd offer the 1920's as a conservative estimate. That said, I can see this institution, with aforementioned conditions and enough "luck", surviving to the present day.
*this is plausible -- initially it could be done by a longer lasting Napoleonic Foreign Policy
If it's yes to just the latter, then with certain preconditions -- e.g. British pressure is held off;* the CSA is both determined to preserve their "peculiar institution" and willing to implement the needed "reforms" to keep it alive -- I'd offer the 1920's as a conservative estimate. That said, I can see this institution, with aforementioned conditions and enough "luck", surviving to the present day.
*this is plausible -- initially it could be done by a longer lasting Napoleonic Foreign Policy
Wolfpaw
Banned
Drat. I meant vote 1910s.
The thing is, slavery and white supremacy are the cornerstone of the Confederacy. To undo that is to undo the whole experiment. I'd give the Confederacy in the neighborhood of 50-60 years before it falls apart.
The thing is, slavery and white supremacy are the cornerstone of the Confederacy. To undo that is to undo the whole experiment. I'd give the Confederacy in the neighborhood of 50-60 years before it falls apart.
This is basically it, though I'd change "rebellion" to "revolution" since the former are not going to be unknown in the Confederacy.
Last edited:
Wolfpaw
Banned
The problem is that the Confederates are going to point out things like Ireland, Bengal, the Indian Mutiny, the Belgian Congo, and other imperialist atrocities to say, "See! At least we don't do that to our slaves!" or at least, "You do it too when your conquered peoples rebel!"
This fits in with the depraved, wicked, and grotesquely romanticized propaganda spewed out by the Confederate elite that cast slavery as a positive good and a beneficial, paternal force for inferior, subhuman, savage blacks. In fact, it had begun to reach the point where a rather vocal number of planters were arguing that enslaving poor whites would be "good" for them, in the same way it was "good" for blacks.
This fits in with the depraved, wicked, and grotesquely romanticized propaganda spewed out by the Confederate elite that cast slavery as a positive good and a beneficial, paternal force for inferior, subhuman, savage blacks. In fact, it had begun to reach the point where a rather vocal number of planters were arguing that enslaving poor whites would be "good" for them, in the same way it was "good" for blacks.
I'd say till about 1876 because I think the North will crush the southern Somalia by then.
If we say the CSA survives till 2000, and is "stable," De Jure slavery till 1910-20's, De Facto slavery till the 70's or 80's, and apartheid-type treatment forever after.
If we say the CSA survives till 2000, and is "stable," De Jure slavery till 1910-20's, De Facto slavery till the 70's or 80's, and apartheid-type treatment forever after.